Author Topic: Ask tough questions, get sent to the brig  (Read 2436 times)

Brad Johnson

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Ask tough questions, get sent to the brig
« on: September 28, 2021, 12:00:08 PM »
Lt. Col Stuart Scheller, the Marine who dared demand accountability from his superiors over the Afghanistan debacle, has been jailed pending court martial.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/outspoken-marine-officer-went-viral-blasting-military-leaders-afghanistan-jailed

If the military is trying to piss off every member service member who ever served, regardless of branch, they seem to be doing a good job. Talked to a senior officer at the local Reserve station who used to be on one of my crews. He is furious and says most every member of their unit feels the same way.

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Ron

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Re: Ask tough questions, get sent to the brig
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2021, 12:20:37 PM »
They really really are trying to provoke the white insurrectionists they need to disarm us.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Ask tough questions, get sent to the brig
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2021, 09:48:33 PM »
So the effers couldn't even let him just retire for the good of the service.

Despicable.
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Bogie

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Re: Ask tough questions, get sent to the brig
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2021, 09:57:26 PM »
So... I have to wonder...
 
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Re: Ask tough questions, get sent to the brig
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2021, 12:55:43 AM »
  I wonder hows he being treated? It is disappointing that other officers and NCO's cooperated , it makes me think that most would turn against the civilians in an gun confiscation scheme 
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Ask tough questions, get sent to the brig
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2021, 01:19:21 AM »
Quote
It is disappointing that other officers and NCO's cooperated

I believe that when given the choice of enforcing unconstitutional orders or facing loss of paycheck and/or arrest, the majority of law enforcement and military will default to their paycheck.
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tokugawa

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Re: Ask tough questions, get sent to the brig
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2021, 01:35:46 AM »
I believe that when given the choice of enforcing unconstitutional orders or facing loss of paycheck and/or arrest, the majority of law enforcement and military will default to their paycheck.

 History would say you are correct. And if the people are sifted for compliance, more so. Sifted for wokeness, and ideology, even more so. Sift far enough and entire units of einstazgruppen can be found. that is what is going on, with the jab mandates, the woke training, etc- it is sifting.

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Re: Ask tough questions, get sent to the brig
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2021, 06:34:43 AM »
Compliance levels more doubtful than you think. This is not the torch and pitchfork time. He knew he would be not an officer in any case. His CO gave him a most likely lawful order to stay off of social media. He immediately violated that on purpose. That’s what the arrest is about. Sure he is being treated very well. I like what he has done but still waiting for the big reveal. I think it is a run at elected office with a book deal on the way.
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Re: Ask tough questions, get sent to the brig
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2021, 06:48:19 AM »
Compliance levels more doubtful than you think. This is not the torch and pitchfork time. He knew he would be not an officer in any case. His CO gave him a most likely lawful order to stay off of social media. He immediately violated that on purpose. That’s what the arrest is about. Sure he is being treated very well. I like what he has done but still waiting for the big reveal. I think it is a run at elected office with a book deal on the way.

Is an order that violates your inalienable human rights ever valid?  They violated his right of speech and his right to petition for redress of grievances.

T.O.M.

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Re: Ask tough questions, get sent to the brig
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2021, 06:56:43 AM »
Is an order that violates your inalienable human rights ever valid?  They violated his right of speech and his right to petition for redress of grievances.

Members of the military do not enjoy all of the same rights were do as citizens.  UCMJ puts restrictions on a lot of rights (free speech, RKBA, etc.) 

And I agree, the Colonel probably has a plan.  I may be jaded, but I just don't see this level of "sacrifice" without some plan to benefit on the other side.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Ask tough questions, get sent to the brig
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2021, 09:44:36 AM »
Members of the military do not enjoy all of the same rights were do as citizens.  UCMJ puts restrictions on a lot of rights (free speech, RKBA, etc.) 

And I agree, the Colonel probably has a plan.  I may be jaded, but I just don't see this level of "sacrifice" without some plan to benefit on the other side.

I agree. He's not sacrificing his career and his retirement check without a parachute somewhere on the plane (I hope).

Even so, I view the intentional disobedience of the order to STFU as being kind of dumb. My understanding was that following the original kerfuffle he had (or said he had) put in for retirement. It would have been a better plan (IMHO), but a lot less dramatic, to just retire and then fire up his social media.
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Brad Johnson

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Re: Ask tough questions, get sent to the brig
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2021, 10:10:36 AM »
I agree. He's not sacrificing his career and his retirement check without a parachute somewhere on the plane (I hope).

Even so, I view the intentional disobedience of the order to STFU as being kind of dumb. My understanding was that following the original kerfuffle he had (or said he had) put in for retirement. It would have been a better plan (IMHO), but a lot less dramatic, to just retire and then fire up his social media.

Along those same lines, the military would have done itself a favor and simply let him retire. Now, they given every current and ex-military member who has the same questions (which, by my experience is a pretty high percentage) and given them reason to really really question what happened. Only now it isn't a question of how bad it was screwed up, but rather one of what else they are hiding. Lost faith in ability and lost faith in integrity are distinctly different issues.

*edit to add*

When a CMH recipient starts ripping the military a new one, you know it's gone all pear-shaped.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/dakota-meyer-jailed-marine-afghanistan-military-leadership-political

Brad
« Last Edit: September 29, 2021, 11:09:05 AM by Brad Johnson »
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Re: Ask tough questions, get sent to the brig
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2021, 12:05:58 PM »
As of yesterday the talking heads were reporting that the officer had been thrown in the brig and no charges had been filed.

Hmmmm . . .
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Ask tough questions, get sent to the brig
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2021, 12:48:14 PM »
As of yesterday the talking heads were reporting that the officer had been thrown in the brig and no charges had been filed.

Hmmmm . . .

SO, another political prisoner.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Ask tough questions, get sent to the brig
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2021, 12:49:35 PM »
As of yesterday the talking heads were reporting that the officer had been thrown in the brig and no charges had been filed.

Hmmmm . . .

They also tried to make him undergo a psychological evaluation.

The brig is probably just a stopover on the way to the reducation facility.
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Re: Ask tough questions, get sent to the brig
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2021, 12:51:36 PM »
They also tried to make him undergo a psychological evaluation.

The brig is probably just a stopover on the way to the reducation facility.

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dogmush

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Re: Ask tough questions, get sent to the brig
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2021, 01:17:28 PM »
He is in confinement awaiting an Article 32 hearing.  An Article 32 hearing is kind of like a grand jury indictment, but a little different.  It's a probable cause hearing.  The UCMJ requires an Article 32 hearing for anyone going to a General Court Marshal. (the highest level of CM under the UCMJ).


Without comment on the LTC's specific issue, in my experience the people that get confinement prior to the Art 32 hearings are the people that gave their Commander reason to believe that they will continue whatever behavior got them in trouble in the first place. 

zxcvbob

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Re: Ask tough questions, get sent to the brig
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2021, 02:02:42 PM »
What are the chances that it goes to a general court martial, and the jury (I think it's called a panel) nullifies it?  Does that ever happen in the military?  Can the judge override them, or would that be a 5th and 7th Amendment violation? 

That would be a pretty clear show that the officers have no confidence in command.
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dogmush

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Re: Ask tough questions, get sent to the brig
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2021, 02:28:58 PM »
The Court Martial can't "nullify" it.  They can find guilty, not guilty, or a couple of specified other ones (not guilty only by reason of lack of mental responsibility for example).  They can, of course, find "Not Guilty" if they want.  I don't believe the Judge can impeach a finding of "not guilty unless there is one of a couple specific reasons*.  Does that ever happen?  Maybe, but I've never heard of it.  What are the chances?  Effectively zero.  If at all possible you want to avoid a Court Martial.  It is not set up to favor the accused even a bit.

I am not a JAG officer, or even have much experience with the process.  I've only seen one soldier go all the way to GCM in my entire career, and that was mostly stupidity.

*From the Manual of Court Martial:

Quote
Rule 923. Impeachment of findings
Findings that are proper on their face may be
impeached only when extraneous prejudicial
information was improperly brought to the attention of
a member, outside influence was improperly brought
to bear upon any member, or unlawful command
influence was brought to bear upon any member.

RoadKingLarry

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Re: Ask tough questions, get sent to the brig
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2021, 02:35:33 PM »
Quote
If at all possible you want to avoid a Court Martial

The sea-lawyer thumb rule 30+ years ago was if you're guilty take the Article 15/Captain's Mast, if you're innocent/not guilty go for the Court Martial.
Of course that option wasn't available for afloat commands.
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zxcvbob

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Re: Ask tough questions, get sent to the brig
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2021, 02:51:12 PM »
By "nullify" I meant to ignore the facts and find not guilty whether the defendant is really guilty or not.  Sorry, my fault for editorializing in mid question. :)
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dogmush

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Re: Ask tough questions, get sent to the brig
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2021, 03:31:03 PM »
By "nullify" I meant to ignore the facts and find not guilty whether the defendant is really guilty or not.  Sorry, my fault for editorializing in mid question. :)

I wouldn't hold your breath on a bunch of O-6's doing that.

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Re: Ask tough questions, get sent to the brig
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2021, 05:48:35 PM »
Along those same lines, the military would have done itself a favor and simply let him retire. Now, they given every current and ex-military member who has the same questions (which, by my experience is a pretty high percentage) and given them reason to really really question what happened. Only now it isn't a question of how bad it was screwed up, but rather one of what else they are hiding. Lost faith in ability and lost faith in integrity are distinctly different issues.

(....  ETA deleted)
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Re: Ask tough questions, get sent to the brig
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2021, 06:52:24 PM »
I wouldn't hold your breath on a bunch of O-6's doing that.

Also I’m willing to bet the judge, prosecutor, and panel/jury to all be picked for political reliability vs fairness.
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dogmush

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Re: Ask tough questions, get sent to the brig
« Reply #24 on: September 29, 2021, 07:08:39 PM »
Also I’m willing to bet the judge, prosecutor, and panel/jury to all be picked for political reliability vs fairness.

There's rules about who they can pick (I don't know them off the top of my head, but they can't just pick anyone they want.) 

But honestly,  I don't think they need to pick carefully.  This is the kinda thing that riles Commanders up, even if they agree with the sentiment.  Maybe especially if they agree with the sentiment. That second video is going to do him in.