Author Topic: Kerosene or Propane heaters? (Read 2194 times)

Bogie · « **Reply #25 on:** October 27, 2021, 08:09:05 PM »

Now I just have to figure how to drill a hole through the concrete block wall... But that's a LOT easier than going through the roof.

K Frame · « **Reply #26 on:** October 27, 2021, 08:12:05 PM »

I'd suggest det cord, but that might go through the wall AND the roof at the same time.

It shouldn't be too hard to go through a concrete block wall. I know more than a few people who have installed pellet stoves through old homes with triple brick construction. It just takes time and drill bits.

Bogie · « **Reply #27 on:** October 27, 2021, 08:18:28 PM »

3" hole is gonna be interesting tho... Good thing that China Fright is just up the street.

Bogie · « **Reply #28 on:** October 27, 2021, 08:24:23 PM »

So, you're figuring 40 bags for the whole winter? About 1600 pounds? At a bit over $200?

Damn.

I have to figure out how to do that...

K Frame · « **Reply #29 on:** October 27, 2021, 09:04:14 PM »

The last two winters have been about 40 bags, and given the long-range forecast, that's what I'm expecting to use this year, as well.

If the winter is a lot colder, I'll use more, of course. Fortunately, the supply is pretty stable, but it does kind of peter out towards the end of the winter.

Bogie · « **Reply #30 on:** October 27, 2021, 09:15:47 PM »

I tend to use the van as a streetside storage unit... And guess what? 3/4 ton...

I suspect I'd have significantly less burn time than you, however - and the house is pretty darn small. I saw a pellet furnace on Craigslist that I could likely hook up to existing duct work (about 16 linear feat or so...), after ripping out the existing thing, but...

K Frame · « **Reply #31 on:** October 28, 2021, 07:12:10 AM »

Hum...

You know, this may be the pellet stove for you.

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/cleveland-iron-works-pellet-stove-18-lb-hopper-f500215-1407291?cm_mmc=feed-_-BingShopping-_-Product-_-1407291&msclkid=f75cfbf945d218c571f89a83c6d786a3&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Shopping%20-%20All%20Products&utm_term=4585375807245420&utm_content=All%20Products

Here's the manufacturer's website for it: https://www.cleveland-ironworks.com/no-215-mini-pellet-stove.html

It's small, it's rated for 800 square feet, and it has built in smart home capabilities (don't know what the requirements are for that) so that you can control it remotely.

The only drawback is that it only has an 18 pound hopper (slightly less than a half bag of pellets).

The AFUE is REALLY good at 86%. That's quite a bit better than my Castle Serenity.

In reading through the manual it requires a bit more in the way of cleaning than mine. That's because it has more complex heat exchangers (the Castle's is really simple), that's how you get the greater efficiency.

Bogie · « **Reply #32 on:** October 28, 2021, 10:05:31 AM »

Thanks - looks like that could be it - if everyone is still in business next year. There's a spot in my living room that will be great for it. I'll have to lose the ivy on an outside wall, but I've been meaning to do that.

K Frame · « **Reply #33 on:** October 28, 2021, 10:29:14 AM »

Be sure to keep us up to date on how you make out with it.

As I've repeatedly said, adding a pellet stove to my house is, by far, the best home improvement I've ever made in the way of comfort and livability.

Yes, humping and storing the pellets is both a challenge and somewhat a pain in the butt, but being able to sit in my living room and actually be warm, instead of shivering under a blanket, is more than worth it.

JTHunter · « **Reply #34 on:** October 28, 2021, 04:20:59 PM »

Bogie - what K Frame said about the "film" left by kerosene heaters is correct. They also have more smell than propane.

My workroom is somewhat insulated (2" thick pink foam boards) and inside an unheated pole barn. I have a catalytic heater that clamps on the handle of a 20 lb. bottle and, on full, can drive me out of the workroom in about 10 minutes when it is 0^o outside. The room is about 175 sq. ft. (9 x 20) and the heater is about 6-8' from the far end. The workbench is about in the middle so the heater, which provides both radiant and hot air, is about 6' from the bench. There is a large metal cabinet and an upright freezer just inside the door which are farthest away from the heater. There is no smell from this heater but I have to leave the door open about 1" to allow fresh air to enter because this thing does use the O2 up rather quickly.

Considering the small size you mentioned, the kerosene would be a "no go" because of smell, residue, and mess. The propane heater could be put in a corner (with 12" clearance) of either your coldest or your largest room and would make a big difference. If you use it in conjunction with your electric heating, it will bring your room up to temperature more quickly but the furnace blower would help spread that around. Once at the desired temp., the propane can be shut off, removing any possibility of CO poisoning.
Good luck.

Bogie · « **Reply #35 on:** October 28, 2021, 04:58:57 PM »

My workshop is VERY drafty. You can see light in places. I really need to move stuff away from the walls, and put SOMETHING on the studs, but... Time and money. Probably going to put up some of the foil-sheathed insulation panels... Be an excuse to use the nailgun/stapler...

K Frame · « **Reply #36 on:** October 29, 2021, 07:32:22 AM »

The more I look at that Cleveland Ironworks stove, the more I like it. And it gets REALLY good reviews on line.

If your workshop is that drafty, you might well do better with an electric radiant unit like this:

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Hanover-34-6-in-Wide-Electric-Carbon-Infrared-Heat-Lamp-with-Remote-Control-Black/1002297410

You can mount them to the wall; some of them have a portable stand, as well.

Bogie · « **Reply #37 on:** January 08, 2022, 07:39:55 PM »

And looking at the Cleveland Ironworks pellet stove.

Now... Do you think I could use my existing "through the roof" furnace flue? Looks like double pipe.

I'm going to remove the furnace/AC stuff, since it was making really horrid noises when running the AC, and I was scared it would kill me if I used it with natural gas. Plan is to replace with a pellet stove, probably the Cleveland one, and a pair of air conditioners (probably window-unit type.

House is 765 square feet.

K Frame · « **Reply #38 on:** January 09, 2022, 08:42:01 AM »

"Now... Do you think I could use my existing "through the roof" furnace flue? Looks like double pipe. "

NO! Absolutely not!

Gas appliances vent using B pipe, which is not suitable for use in venting a pellet stove.

Pellet stoves require L vent pipe. The difference is that B vent is an aluminum inner pipe, while L vent is stainless steel. A pellet stove's combustion by products will very quickly rot out the aluminum inner pipe on B vent.

You CANNOT use B vent with a pellet stove unless you're a fan of house fires.

Also remember that where your old furnace is located may not be the best place to locate your pellet stove. Unless they're specifically designed to be hooked into your furnace venting, pellet stoves are area heaters.

K Frame · « **Reply #39 on:** January 09, 2022, 08:49:49 AM »

Yesterday was the first really good cold day we've had since I bought my pellet stove -- about 19 overnight and barely above freezing.

I ran the stove from around 6:30 a.m. to about midnight. I did shut it down for about 2 hours midday to clean it, but it kept the living room nice and toasty, the dining room and kitchen warm, and the upstairs, by the time I finally went to bed, at around 68 degrees. My bedroom was cooler than that, but I don't mind that because I sleep under an incredible goose down comforter.

I run the air handler fan 24x7 to help distribute heat. I have one large air intake in the living room near the stove and another one in the upstairs hallway. I'm thinking over covering the one in the living room during the winter to see if I can get the one in the upstairs hall to create a better circular flow.

Ben · « **Reply #40 on:** January 09, 2022, 09:01:27 AM »

Quote from: K Frame on January 09, 2022, 08:49:49 AM

I run the air handler fan 24x7 to help distribute heat. I have one large air intake in the living room near the stove and another one in the upstairs hallway. I'm thinking over covering the one in the living room during the winter to see if I can get the one in the upstairs hall to create a better circular flow.

Hey, that's a good idea. I need to try covering one of the ones in the warm part of my house when I'm heating via wood stove to see if it helps circulate warm air to the "extremities" of the house.

I like sleeping cold as well, but don't necessarily like walking into the master bed/bath when it's 62 in there during the day.

K Frame · « **Reply #41 on:** January 09, 2022, 02:37:29 PM »

I'm going to get a sheet of the flexible magnetic vinyl and cut a cover for the return. Amazon carries it. I just need to measure it first to make sure I get enough.

Ben · « **Reply #42 on:** January 09, 2022, 03:01:26 PM »

Quote from: K Frame on January 09, 2022, 02:37:29 PM

I'm going to get a sheet of the flexible magnetic vinyl and cut a cover for the return. Amazon carries it. I just need to measure it first to make sure I get enough.

I got some of that from Amazon some years ago for my parents' house, as they were having comfort issues between upstairs and downstairs. At the time, Amazon was selling them precut to the more common register sizes. I don't know the pricing differences between precut and do-it-yourself.

Jim147 · « **Reply #43 on:** January 09, 2022, 03:48:37 PM »

Well these should be interesting experiments.

Bogie · « **Reply #44 on:** January 09, 2022, 11:07:16 PM »

And... I think the pipe up through my roof is 4" inside diameter...

Yeah, it probably isn't the right kind of pipe.

But can I run the right kind of pipe inside it? That would save me cutting another hole in the roof. I can run it taller than the existing pipe if necessary, and easily make some 3" inside diameter/whatever outside diameter spacers if necessary.

K Frame · « **Reply #45 on:** January 10, 2022, 07:19:58 AM »

"But can I run the right kind of pipe inside it? That would save me cutting another hole in the roof. I can run it taller than the existing pipe if necessary, and easily make some 3" inside diameter/whatever outside diameter spacers if necessary. "

That's an interesting question, but I suspect that would be fine because you wouldn't be depending on the old furnace pipe to carry combustion products, essentially it would be a chase and thimble all in one.

The other alternative is, of course, removing the old furnace vent and running the pellet stove vent up through the same holes.

And, if you went with a 4" pellet stove vent, you probably wouldn't even have to replace the thimbles.

K Frame · « **Reply #46 on:** January 10, 2022, 07:27:38 AM »

oh, and no matter what you do, make sure that you figure in room so that you can get to the vent clean out cap.

You'll need to sweep the vent pipe at least once a year (a lot of people do it every ton they burn) because you do get a build up of soot and fly ash in the pipe.

If you sweep from the top using a rotary brush you can then just open the clean out cap and dump the accumulated soot and fly ash.

I have my clean out on the outside of the house, which makes it a lot easier. All of the soot and fly ash just falls right onto the ground.

It also makes it a lot easier to hook up the leaf blower (on vacuum). That's a great trick for really cleaning out ash that accumulates in places you can't really reach. You just have to make certain to disconnect the vacuum switch tubing before you use the leaf vac.

You'll also need room to get to the combustion blower (usually through an access panel in the side of the stove) so that you can clean that.

Bogie · « **Reply #47 on:** January 10, 2022, 07:45:11 AM »

Looked at it - Pipe diameter is closer to 6", and has a 4-5" pipe inside it. The furnace/ac, of course, is directly below. That would all come out, the duct work would come out, and the pipe would go straight up. I'd actually like to take out the walls of the "closet-type" area that it shares with the water heater. That area is in roughly the center of my 765 square foot semi-shotgun house.

The optimal "through the wall" location is in the living room, which is at one end. Bedroom is the other, of course.

Construction is concrete block. I would eventually like to cut a door in the bedroom to the back yard area, and put an add-on deckroom there. The existing "back door" is to the side, but is unused. No knob, no nothing on the outside. Not a hazard, because all I need to do is lift the crossbar.

K Frame · « **Reply #48 on:** January 10, 2022, 08:07:06 AM »

I'd say that you'd need to consult with your local code office to make sure such an installation would be allowable, but I can't really see why it wouldn't be. It would be not unlike running the pellet stove vent up through a masonry chimney.

You may even be able to use a flexible stainless steel pipe designed for use in a masonry chimney.

I'm going to ask this question in my pellet stove group on Facebook.

Nick1911 · « **Reply #49 on:** January 10, 2022, 10:33:14 AM »

You might not have adequate clearance to combustibles. Type L requires 3" clearance to combustible, the old type B vent only requires 1".

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Author Topic: Kerosene or Propane heaters? (Read 2194 times)