Author Topic: Paper Mask Efficacy  (Read 2563 times)

HankB

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 16,609
Re: Paper Mask Efficacy
« Reply #25 on: November 27, 2021, 08:01:23 AM »
There's still lingering confusion about masks thanks, in large part, to government - it seems that everyone from Biden and Pelosi to St. Fauci himself has changed their tune not based on the science, but on the politics.

St. Fauci went from no masks to endorsing the wearing 2 or even 3 masks - if it was science, that would say that St. Fauci and his minions had determined that 1 mask wasn't very protective. (St. Fauci claimed he initially lied about masks to preserve the supply for health care workers, so his credibility is not high.)

I've either been prudent or lucky in avoiding the Chinese virus - got the jabs earlier this year, avoided dense crowds like flea markets and gun shows  :'( , washed my hands, kept hand sanitizer in my car and used it every time I got in after touching something like a gas pump or shopping cart, and I irradiate my mail & newspaper in a germicidal UV box I built, just in case a sickly mailman or paper boy sneezed on my stuff just before delivery.

And I'll close by saying that I expect to be mightily disappointed in all the "civilized" nations for not putting extreme sanctions on Red China for what they did to the world - it would seem the CCP got real value for all the money they spread around.  :mad:
« Last Edit: November 27, 2021, 01:05:00 PM by HankB »
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. - Mark Twain
Government is a broker in pillage, and every election is a sort of advance auction in stolen goods. - H.L. Mencken
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain

Bogie

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,189
  • Hunkered in South St. Louis, right by Route 66
    • Third Rate Pundit
Re: Paper Mask Efficacy
« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2021, 08:05:38 AM »
They basically only provide a sense of security.
 
Unless the wearer is shaved, closely, and a mask of the proper material is fitted, tightly, they leak.
 
And then there are the folks who say "I'm doing this because I care for you," and they are wearing a vented mask.
 
Our politicians had to Do Something.
 
That's about it.
 
They also had to Do Something by rushing through the vaccines, boosters, etc... They had the play-acting quarantine - which involved everyone going at once to the store to buy all the toilet paper and everything on the shelves.
 
The Chinese took the common cold, and threw some really bad propaganda at it, and our media, along with the fat part of the bell curve, believed it.

People still think that we have folks collapsing in the street.

Why are there still essential workers left? Karen expected us to die first, but hey, he was okay with that.
Blog under construction

Ben

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 45,940
  • I'm an Extremist!
Re: Paper Mask Efficacy
« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2021, 08:23:25 AM »
Personally, based on the data I've seen, I'm sure respirators work, I doubt surgical or cloth masks do anything, and it doesn't matter, because mask mandates are stupid and haven't been shown to be effective as a public health measure, and effectiveness hasn't even been defined.

Honestly, if we're talking mask mandates or full "stay in your home" lockdowns, I almost have to agree with DeSelby on full lockdowns. As many of us here have mentioned, the most ubiquitous example of stupid mandates that are more social than scientific is the restaurant mandate where we have to wear a mask to our table, then everybody gets to sit around maskless in an enclosed space and spread germs. That's not effective masking, but we didn't want restaurants to go out of business (though a great many did) so we decided to create a health mandate with exceptions. Just like on airplanes. We couldn't let airlines go broke, so people have to wear masks, but you take them off while eating or drinking while strangers sit even closer to you than in restaurants. Or like the latest egregious example - Hollywood parties - we have the special people going maskless, even though we know vaccines aren't magic shields, while their vaccinated servants have to wear masks and gloves. Or like at Costco the other day where the cashier politely turned away from me, pulled her mask down and sneezed, then put the mask back on and turned to finish checking me out. She did that two more times before we were done.

Like Dogmush, my preferred social interactions limited the incidents where I had to abide by ineffective mask mandates as  there are in restaurants and airplanes. Though like Constitution Cowboy, I got covid after at least a week of either being by myself or going to places where I had to wear a mask and where I followed the guidelines.

The Idaho Health Dept girl, who called me to do contact tracing after my positive test was reported to them, couldn't figure out how I got it. I suspect it might have been as 230RN mentioned, I might have scratched my nose or face while driving home, because I don't wear a mask when I'm by myself, and it was extremely difficult for me to remember to sanitize my hands every freakin' ten minutes.

Otherwise, mask mandates are stupid because of the reasons I mentioned above and creating tribalism where someone wearing a mask below their nose is a better person than someone maskless.

Also, as Andiron mentioned and I have mentioned before, I actually like the idea of masks in certain situations, like when you're sick (non-covid) and sitting next to me in the doctor's waiting room when I'm healthy and just there for a physical. We could have been wearing masks "strategically" and voluntarily long before covid, just like some other countries do, when we're out and about and actually sick. But the same people yelling "mask up comrade!" now would have been making fun of someone with the flu wearing a mask five years ago.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

Ben

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 45,940
  • I'm an Extremist!
Re: Paper Mask Efficacy
« Reply #28 on: November 27, 2021, 08:27:13 AM »
The Chinese took the common cold, and threw some really bad propaganda at it, and our media, along with the fat part of the bell curve, believed it.

As someone who had the CCP virus as well as one of the long-term aftereffects, I guarantee it's not the common cold. I think my historical postings put me well outside the "OMG covid we're all going to die!" camp, but comparing it to the common cold is just silly. Especially if you, like me, believe this was likely accidentally or purposely leaked from an experimental lab with a military component to it, rather than a random bat in an outdoor food market.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

Ron

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,881
  • Like a tree planted by the rivers of water
    • What I believe ...
Re: Paper Mask Efficacy
« Reply #29 on: November 27, 2021, 08:33:52 AM »
If masks worked it would be easily shown in the data. Instead we get the studies that show how they should work in theory (droplets, viral load etc.) The theory unfortunately didn't survive contact with reality. There are a handful of studies that contradict my assertion, there are far more studies that I've linked to previously that support my assertion.

The "vaccines" may have shown a decrease in infections initially but the protection fades much faster than hoped and variants are already working around vaccine protection.

The "vaccines" do seem to be proven to lower severity and mortality from covid infection at least for 6-12 months after getting jabbed. Hello, annual boosters.

What we don't know is the long term unintended consequences of mRNA therapy vaccines. 

Lockdowns just stall the inevitable. If the vaccines actually worked like the polio or measles vaccines (ie stopped the spread) maybe lockdowns make some sense. Unfortunately not only do the jabbed still get infected but they are laboratories for the virus to select for vaccine resistant strains.
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

Bogie

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,189
  • Hunkered in South St. Louis, right by Route 66
    • Third Rate Pundit
Re: Paper Mask Efficacy
« Reply #30 on: November 27, 2021, 08:37:16 AM »
Coronaviruses are part of what we call "the common cold."
 
I do think that they played with it before they let it go... Their propaganda campaign was there to cover the disposal of their protesters (and the old men in Peking can afford to lose population), but our media just flat-out loved it...
 
A holy grail for pharma was discovering a cure for the common cold. If they could have reliably and safely done that, it would have happened...
 
Then this bug got loose, and every swamp creature in Washington figured to jump on the bandwagon. I just have to wonder how things would have been different if Trump had a family member into biotech... As it was, the administration had no choice but to believe the healthcare bureaucracy...

And we're going to have a helluva wake for my friend Kay, who didn't survive the booster that she wanted to believe in...
Blog under construction

Ben

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 45,940
  • I'm an Extremist!
Re: Paper Mask Efficacy
« Reply #31 on: November 27, 2021, 08:43:37 AM »
Coronaviruses are part of what we call "the common cold."


I think you wrote that backwards.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

Ron

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,881
  • Like a tree planted by the rivers of water
    • What I believe ...
Re: Paper Mask Efficacy
« Reply #32 on: November 27, 2021, 08:45:07 AM »
As someone who had the CCP virus as well as one of the long-term aftereffects, I guarantee it's not the common cold. I think my historical postings put me well outside the "OMG covid we're all going to die!" camp, but comparing it to the common cold is just silly. Especially if you, like me, believe this was likely accidentally or purposely leaked from an experimental lab with a military component to it, rather than a random bat in an outdoor food market.

I tend to agree with Ben on the engineered status of the virus. (edited to add, I'm not dogmatic on this. Starting at "is it possible?" and then seeing what has transpired these last two years I see no reason to dismiss it as probable.)

Even just being open to that possibility causes one to start questioning all the information/disinformation we're being fed.

My risk assessments have all been based on my not trusting anyone, high skepticism flirting with paranoid, LOL. In the short term I got pretty darn sick but recovered. We will see how I fare in the long term and see how the vaccinated fare in the long term. I'm one of the minority in the control group.

« Last Edit: November 27, 2021, 09:01:26 AM by Ron »
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

ConstitutionCowboy

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 642
  • My Gender and Pronouns are Standard.
Re: Paper Mask Efficacy
« Reply #33 on: November 27, 2021, 11:48:28 AM »
Out of curiosity, how do you know where you caught it?
I got it last year while doing all the things, but I have no idea where.

I live out in the county, no neighbors closer than a tenth of a mile unless you count horses and cattle. I hadn't gone anywhere the previous week, and nowhere else after going in for my annual checkup until I went to the emergency room 11 days later due to feeling like crap. The doctor told me I had the Covid and I was about over it and he sent me home with an oxygen bottle and an O2 concentrator. After about a week and a half, I no longer needed the O2 concentrator.

Woody

   "Knowing the past, I'll not surrender any arms and march less prepared into the future."   B.E.Wood

zxcvbob

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,226
Re: Paper Mask Efficacy
« Reply #34 on: November 27, 2021, 12:34:27 PM »
Be careful with the D3.  I think that's one you can overdose on.  Knock yourself with the C; you can't get too much of that.  (well, you can, but you'll just harmlessly pee out the excess and that might even be good for your bladder.)
"It's good, though..."

Bogie

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,189
  • Hunkered in South St. Louis, right by Route 66
    • Third Rate Pundit
Blog under construction

Ben

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 45,940
  • I'm an Extremist!
Re: Paper Mask Efficacy
« Reply #36 on: November 28, 2021, 08:04:25 AM »
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

Ben

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 45,940
  • I'm an Extremist!
Re: Paper Mask Efficacy
« Reply #37 on: November 28, 2021, 08:08:47 AM »
"A mask is a patriotic responsibility, for God's sake!!!"

https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2021/11/27/pic-video-of-biden-blowing-off-indoor-mask-requirement-on-nantucket-speaks-rules-for-thee-but-not-for-me-volumes/


Edited to add:

Quote
steve
@usnjkpolk
Replying to
@stillgray
Peppermint Psaki's spin will be he's vaccinated, other people were wearing masks and it was just for a moment.

"Peppermint Psaki". That's great!  :rofl:
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

Bogie

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,189
  • Hunkered in South St. Louis, right by Route 66
    • Third Rate Pundit
Re: Paper Mask Efficacy
« Reply #38 on: November 28, 2021, 08:11:21 AM »
99.8% overall survival, and that is including octogenarian invalids and terminally ill patients...
 
Here in St. Louis, we have ZERO deaths with it under age 30.
 
About the only folks wearing masks are low income (too much TV) and hipsters.
 
Their theme is "I'm doing my part, and you should too, whether it works or not, but it does, because it is magical."
 
Changed a battery for a doctor the other day... "Yeah, they make the patients feel better."
Blog under construction

griz

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,037
Re: Paper Mask Efficacy
« Reply #39 on: November 28, 2021, 02:03:14 PM »

Masks also tend to keep you from rubbing or touching your mouth and nose, which is a known transmission vector for nasties.


I'm not convinced of that.  Everybody I've seen has to keep adjusting their masks if they've had it on for any amount of time.  Even discounting the photo op "mask on-off-on" (and why would you disregard that?) that handling of the mask has to increase the risk of spreading nasties, not limit it.  Think of it, the one thing that a sick person is guaranteed to contaminate with the virus is the mask, and he handles it many times a day.  The virus has made thinking people conscious of a lot of potential risk reductions*, but mask mandates only make people conscious of the rules.

*Yes, I believe masks help reduce spread, along with hand washing and distance from others.  But they aren't magic bullets.
Sent from a stone age computer via an ordinary keyboard.

Ben

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 45,940
  • I'm an Extremist!
Re: Paper Mask Efficacy
« Reply #40 on: November 28, 2021, 02:39:56 PM »
I'm not convinced of that.  Everybody I've seen has to keep adjusting their masks if they've had it on for any amount of time. 

I'll agree with that. I know that I scratch or touch my face throughout the day for an itch or whatever, often not even paying attention that I'm doing it.

With the mask, I am constantly adjusting it, know I'm doing so, but still adjust it because the *expletive deleted*ing thing is always moving out of place anytime I move my mouth or jaw. I wouldn't be surprised if I touch my face way, way more wearing a mask than when maskless.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

JTHunter

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,919
Re: Paper Mask Efficacy
« Reply #41 on: November 28, 2021, 11:21:24 PM »
Talks about masks, jabs, and mandates just makes me go all "Ebenezer".



Bah ! Humbug !
“I have little patience with people who take the Bill of Rights for granted.  The Bill of Rights, contained in the first ten amendments to the Constitution, is every American’s guarantee of freedom.” - - President Harry S. Truman, “Years of Trial and Hope”

MechAg94

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33,701
Re: Paper Mask Efficacy
« Reply #42 on: November 29, 2021, 09:06:34 AM »
I always figured one of the effects of a mask was to prevent spittle and sputum from ordinary speaking from getting around.  Either to within the mask from without or vice-versa. 

A particle of spittle due from pronouncing a fricative gets out, floats around, the moisture evaporates, and the bugs it contained float around for even longer and for a greater distance.

Sort of like salt air spray from the ocean, where the water evaporates, and the micro-micro particles of salt still float around for quite a distance inland.

Masks also tend to  keep you from rubbing or touching your mouth and nose, which is a known transmission vector for nasties.

In my opinon (no science involved) the slight moisturizing from your breath helps to trap the actual germs, and I suspect if the "underwear experiment" were performed with even a very very slight dampness, the results would be much less than dramatized in the OP.

After all, analogously, they treat regular filters (as on your intake manifold or your furnace) with resins to help trap nasty particles from entering your engine or getting into your house.

Ninety percent isn't as good as 100% but it's still better than 80%.

Honestly, this silly actively looking for negatives about the masks is ridiculous, and if people think it is for control/training purposes, I don't know what to think of y'all.  Bunch of "Typhoid Maries," as far as I can tell.

There.  I said it and I ain't takin' it back.

In fact, I've said it before.

Terry, 230RN
On that first part, I always imagined it was the larger droplets where the bugs survive longer and can inadvertently get transferred from one person to another either directly or via an intermediate surface.  That is why I figured that social distancing is having an effect on cold and flu transmission.  I have no idea if COVID works the same way or not.
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

Perd Hapley

  • Superstar of the Internet
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 61,389
  • My prepositions are on/in
Re: Paper Mask Efficacy
« Reply #43 on: November 29, 2021, 06:58:45 PM »
Honestly, this silly actively looking for negatives about the masks is ridiculous, and if people think it is for control/training purposes, I don't know what to think of y'all.  Bunch of "Typhoid Maries," as far as I can tell.

Who knows if it will do any good, but I have used the report function to call attention to your calling multiple forum members "Typhoid Maries"[sic].

You're trying to shame people for not taking the totally unreasonable step of wearing masks everywhere they go? Even after a year and a half, when vaccines are readily available? And for that you liken us to Typhoid Mary? For crying out loud, she actually had the disease, and was told that she did. And it was a far more serious disease. Do you want to reconsider that, perhaps?
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

Bogie

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,189
  • Hunkered in South St. Louis, right by Route 66
    • Third Rate Pundit
Re: Paper Mask Efficacy
« Reply #44 on: November 29, 2021, 10:26:06 PM »
So... I gotta wear this thing, which is leaky as hell, so is ineffective, because my vaccinations don't work, and  your vaccinations don't work either?
 
Some folks really go all religious fanatic when they hear that.
Blog under construction

gunsmith

  • I forgot to get vaccinated!
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8,176
  • I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.
Re: Paper Mask Efficacy
« Reply #45 on: November 30, 2021, 12:55:13 AM »
I tend to agree with Ben on the engineered status of the virus. (edited to add, I'm not dogmatic on this. Starting at "is it possible?" and then seeing what has transpired these last two years I see no reason to dismiss it as probable.)

Even just being open to that possibility causes one to start questioning all the information/disinformation we're being fed.

My risk assessments have all been based on my not trusting anyone, high skepticism flirting with paranoid, LOL. In the short term I got pretty darn sick but recovered. We will see how I fare in the long term and see how the vaccinated fare in the long term. I'm one of the minority in the control group.

me too, i got really really sick and all the symptoms are gone except i get tired really easy,( two weeks from worst symptoms) but i just can't shake this feeling that 5 yrs from now i will be very grateful i took no jabs
Politicians and bureaucrats are considered productive if they swarm the populace like a plague of locust, devouring all substance in their path and leaving a swath of destruction like a firestorm. The technical term is "bipartisanship".
Rocket Man: "The need for booster shots for the immunized has always been based on the science.  Political science, not medical science."

Bogie

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,189
  • Hunkered in South St. Louis, right by Route 66
    • Third Rate Pundit
Re: Paper Mask Efficacy
« Reply #46 on: November 30, 2021, 07:53:31 AM »
I figure that four years from now, they'll be asking for the vax card when I sign up for any revenant (not a typo...) of social security.
Blog under construction

cordex

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,613
Re: Paper Mask Efficacy
« Reply #47 on: November 30, 2021, 08:25:53 AM »
me too, i got really really sick and all the symptoms are gone except i get tired really easy,( two weeks from worst symptoms) but i just can't shake this feeling that 5 yrs from now i will be very grateful i took no jabs
If I were you I'd worry about lung function.  That is something you might want to speak with a doctor about.

I think the individual risk of a COVID vaccine is probably pretty minor, however it still remains to be seen how long term repeated use will change things and it wouldn't surprise me if some people had long term health complications stemming from them.  That said, given your persistent symptom you may indeed be a case where COVID has caused persistent damage.

Bogie

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,189
  • Hunkered in South St. Louis, right by Route 66
    • Third Rate Pundit
Re: Paper Mask Efficacy
« Reply #48 on: November 30, 2021, 08:33:38 AM »
Coupla years ago, after I caught the crud from the kiddies doing Santa, it took me about a month to recover.
 
Whooping cough was big that year.
 
Right now I'm drinking my morning coffee, so that I don't snap and waste cow orkers...
 
You should be drinking coffee too, so that mine works.
 
Their fates are in your hands.
Blog under construction

RocketMan

  • Mad Rocket Scientist
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,610
  • Semper Fidelis
Re: Paper Mask Efficacy
« Reply #49 on: November 30, 2021, 09:03:03 AM »
me too, i got really really sick and all the symptoms are gone except i get tired really easy,( two weeks from worst symptoms) but i just can't shake this feeling that 5 yrs from now i will be very grateful i took no jabs

SWMBO and I both had the bug last December.  Caught it from her son when he came over for Thanksgiving.  We were both quite fatigued after all the other symptoms had cleared up.  For me the post-bug fatigue lasted about a month, then I was able to get back to normal activity levels.
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.