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Author Topic: IRS: Report stolen property as income  (Read 676 times)

WLJ

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IRS: Report stolen property as income
« on: December 28, 2021, 07:23:04 AM »


Wait what?  :O

Quote
An image circulating on social media purports to show an IRS guideline asking taxpayers to report the value of any property they have stolen each year as income.

The guideline is real.

The Internal Revenue Service’s Publication 17, available on the agency’s website, contains a section on stolen property that may leave readers scratching their heads.
IRS: Report stolen property as income, unless you return it the same year
https://www.cbs42.com/news/national/irs-report-stolen-property-as-income-unless-you-return-it-the-same-year/amp/



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WLJ

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De Selby

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Re: IRS: Report stolen property as income
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2021, 07:33:55 AM »

Local PD not interested in your home burglary or stolen car? Call the IRS!
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Boomhauer

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Re: IRS: Report stolen property as income
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2021, 08:58:34 AM »

It’s not “purports” if you download the guide off of the IRS website it’s in there along with “income from criminal activity must be reported”
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HankB

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Re: IRS: Report stolen property as income
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2021, 09:32:50 AM »

It’s not “purports” if you download the guide off of the IRS website it’s in there along with “income from criminal activity must be reported
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WLJ

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Re: IRS: Report stolen property as income
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2021, 09:54:49 AM »

Al Capone found that out.

Yeah, the government hates competition
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RocketMan

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Re: IRS: Report stolen property as income
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2021, 11:07:01 AM »

Isn't there a Fifth Amendment issue with this requirement?  Self incrimination?
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Hawkmoon

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Re: IRS: Report stolen property as income
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2021, 11:19:51 AM »

So if you operate your burglary business on an accrual basis rather than a cash basis, do you have to report as income stuff you had planned to steal but weren't able to?

HankB

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Re: IRS: Report stolen property as income
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2021, 11:21:04 AM »

Isn't there a Fifth Amendment issue with this requirement?  Self incrimination?
So this is a case where two amendments - income tax and self incrimination - can conflict.

I may be wrong, but I vaguely recall reading that criminal proceeds reported on an IRS tax form couldn't be used to prosecute the criminal. I think part of the argument is that a crook was obliged to report his criminal income but couldn't be required to be extremely specific about the exact source of the criminal income.

Of course, if law enforcement becomes aware of any criminal income at all, they may decide to start looking for other evidence - something they can use.

(Hmmm . . .  fair market value of stolen goods? In the case of a big jewelry or designer clothing & accessories heist, would that be retail price or what a fence would pay the crook? Or what he'd get at a flea market? I'm wondering about some of the flash mob "smash and grab" robberies we've seen recently out of California.)
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
Those who work for a living are being BURIED by those who vote for a living.
Government is a broker in pillage, and every election is a sort of advance auction in stolen goods. - H.L. Mencken
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain

WLJ

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Re: IRS: Report stolen property as income
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2021, 11:37:53 AM »


(Hmmm . . .  fair market value of stolen goods? In the case of a big jewelry or designer clothing & accessories heist, would that be retail price or what a fence would pay the crook? Or what he'd get at a flea market? I'm wondering about some of the flash mob "smash and grab" robberies we've seen recently out of California.)

Do you report the $2,500 the jewelry shop sells the ring for or the $50 the shop paid for it?
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MechAg94

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Re: IRS: Report stolen property as income
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2021, 12:26:26 PM »

So if you return the stolen goods the following year, can you report it as a loss or negative income?
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WLJ

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Re: IRS: Report stolen property as income
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2021, 12:32:17 PM »

Or how about if you return the stolen money do you have to report any interest earned?
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K Frame

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Re: IRS: Report stolen property as income
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2021, 08:14:09 AM »

Since California is now treating smash and grab looting as a non-crime, does that mean that stolen property isn't actually stolen, and thus doesn't have to be reported?
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Re: IRS: Report stolen property as income
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2021, 11:49:08 PM »

Watch for barred windows and doors, entryway "airlocks" where you enter, remove your mask and hood and smile for the camera before submitting your ID for scanning before being allowed entry. Exit is similar except once you are in the "airlock", your RFID tagged items, ALL of them, are scanned and matched to your receipt before you are let out.

Forgot the xray scanner on entry and exit for weapons/stolen goods.
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MechAg94

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Re: IRS: Report stolen property as income
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2021, 12:06:51 AM »

Watch for barred windows and doors, entryway "airlocks" where you enter, remove your mask and hood and smile for the camera before submitting your ID for scanning before being allowed entry. Exit is similar except once you are in the "airlock", your RFID tagged items, ALL of them, are scanned and matched to your receipt before you are let out.

Forgot the xray scanner on entry and exit for weapons/stolen goods.
I was thinking they would either go online/drive through only or have a front desk where you order and someone goes and gets it off the shelf.  Primary Arms' store in Pearland, TX is like that.  They only have a handful of display items out, but there is a rack of computers on the back wall to place an order and wait for it to be picked.

Whatever way they do it, the company or employees can't stop the theft without liability and the cops won't stop it.  The choice is either to close or completely change the store. 
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Big Hairy Bee

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Re: IRS: Report stolen property as income
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2021, 12:46:19 AM »

I was thinking they would either go online/drive through only or have a front desk where you order and someone goes and gets it off the shelf.  Primary Arms' store in Pearland, TX is like that.  They only have a handful of display items out, but there is a rack of computers on the back wall to place an order and wait for it to be picked.

Whatever way they do it, the company or employees can't stop the theft without liability and the cops won't stop it.  The choice is either to close or completely change the store.

Sounds like the comeback of Service Merchandise!

RocketMan

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Re: IRS: Report stolen property as income
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2021, 09:54:04 AM »

Sounds like the comeback of Service Merchandise!

Huh, I'd forgotten all about them.  Their business model would make sense for a lot of places dealing with smash and grab looting.
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How many Democrats does it take to fix a problem?  No one knows because it's never happened.

230RN

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Re: IRS: Report stolen property as income
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2021, 10:03:15 AM »

Isn't there a Fifth Amendment issue with this requirement?  Self incrimination?

I don't think you have to 'fess up to it, just report value of property received.  As in, like, you know, bartering profits or goods received for services rendered.   The service?  Relieving the previous owners of worry over the diamond rings and cash and other things they had just lying around.

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Re: IRS: Report stolen property as income
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2021, 10:04:55 AM »

Huh, I'd forgotten all about them.  Their business model would make sense for a lot of places dealing with smash and grab looting.

I had to look them up. We had something similar in CA, but I can't even remember the name anymore. I do remember buying a Ruger 10/22 from them though. Kind of a similar model to the S&H Green Stamp stores I guess, without the stamps.  :laugh:

I fondly remember my mom letting me browse the Green Stamp catalog, then going to the store to pick up some toy or another when we had saved up enough stamps. Got my first real chemistry set (with the good chemicals!) from there.
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RocketMan

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Re: IRS: Report stolen property as income
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2021, 10:15:52 AM »

I fondly remember my mom letting me browse the Green Stamp catalog, then going to the store to pick up some toy or another when we had saved up enough stamps. Got my first real chemistry set (with the good chemicals!) from there.

I have fond memories of messing around with my chemistry sets.  This thread is now seriously in danger of drifting.
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

How many Democrats does it take to fix a problem?  No one knows because it's never happened.

lee n. field

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Re: IRS: Report stolen property as income
« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2021, 10:51:10 AM »

Wait what?  :O
IRS: Report stolen property as income, unless you return it the same year

Just a way to pile on more charges, when and if they finally catch the perp.
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lee n. field

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Re: IRS: Report stolen property as income
« Reply #21 on: December 30, 2021, 10:56:24 AM »

Sounds like the comeback of Service Merchandise!

I remember a "K's Merchandise" around here.  Same business model.  Wikipedia (YMMV) sez under 20 stores, through the midwest.  I remember buying some reloading stuff there (!!), including an RCBS Uniflow powder measure that was way mislabeled.  I think I got that for around $40.

They also sold handguns.  Stopped after a smash and grab one day.
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WLJ

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Re: IRS: Report stolen property as income
« Reply #22 on: December 30, 2021, 11:12:14 AM »

Remember waiting impatiently for purchased items to ride the belt from the back warehouse to customer pickup at Service Merchandise.
They were the go to place in town for electronics back in the day.
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Ben

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Re: IRS: Report stolen property as income
« Reply #23 on: December 30, 2021, 11:15:25 AM »

Remember waiting impatiently for purchased items to ride the belt from the back warehouse to customer pickup at Service Merchandise.
They were the go to place in town for electronics back in the day.

I forgot about the conveyer belt! That was like waiting for your luggage at the airport.  =D
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WLJ

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Re: IRS: Report stolen property as income
« Reply #24 on: December 30, 2021, 11:16:17 AM »

Walmart, Circuit City, and then the internet did them in.
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
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