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Author Topic: Biden/EPA puts the brakes on USPS's new trucks over climate change concerns  (Read 548 times)

WLJ

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They want them to switch to all electric.
I wouldn't be shocked in the least if they suddenly award the contract to a Chinese Company. Wonder if Hunter has sold any paintings recently?

Quote
The Biden administration launched a last-minute push Wednesday to derail the U.S. Postal Service’s plan to spend billions of dollars on a new fleet of gasoline-powered delivery trucks, citing the damage the polluting vehicles could inflict on the climate and Americans’ health.

Biden officials push to hold up $11.3 billion USPS truck contract, citing climate damage
https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2022/02/02/usps-trucks-epa-climate-change/


« Last Edit: February 03, 2022, 11:44:41 AM by WLJ »
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HankB

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There's a LOT of crooked money to be made in fighting Climate Change - it makes Bernie Madoff's schemes look like a game of three card Monty in a Brooklyn alley by comparison.

. . . I wouldn't be shocked in the least if they suddenly award the contract to a Chinese Company. Wonder if Hunter has sold any paintings recently?
I've been asking myself that question a lot lately . . . wondering what $500,000 comes to in yuan . . . and whether or not The Big Guy is only in it for 10%.

A Manchurian Candidate doesn't have to be brainwashed - bribery and blackmail will work, too.
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MillCreek

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Is there even an off-the-shelf electric delivery vehicle currently available for the USPS?  Jeff Bezos has been in the news recently asking where are his Amazon electric delivery vans.
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Jim147

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Well this is going to cost us a lot more then 11 billion.
Sometimes we carry more weight then we owe.
And sometimes goes on and on and on.

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WLJ

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Is there even an off-the-shelf electric delivery vehicle currently available for the USPS?  Jeff Bezos has been in the news recently asking where are his Amazon electric delivery vans.

Musk could probably do it but the Biden admin has been doing their best to act like Tesla doesn't exist.
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dogmush

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Hmmm....

Article says:
Quote
The dispute over the Postal Service’s plans to spend up to $11.3 billion on as many as 165,000 new delivery trucks over the next decade has major implications for President Biden’s goal of converting all federal cars and trucks to clean power.

11.3 billion/165,000 trucks is $68,484 each.  A Tesla Model Y long range (with a nice interior) is $58,990.  I would love to see Elon come up on twitter and offer to fulfill this contract with EV's for like 50k each.  Since it seems like Biden can't say the word "Tesla" when talking about EV's.

Tesla probably couldn't actually make that many cars, but the White House song and dance would be glorious to behold.


ETA: Cross posted with WLJ.  Great minds and all that.

HankB

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The only electric vehicles Biden recognizes are the ones made in UNION factories.

The operative word is UNION - as UNIONS have funneled huge amounts of cash to (mostly) Democrat candidates in general and Biden's campaign in particular.

Bribery still works.
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
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WLJ

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Boomhauer

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Is there even an off-the-shelf electric delivery vehicle currently available for the USPS?  Jeff Bezos has been in the news recently asking where are his Amazon electric delivery vans.

No there isn’t .


Lots of fancy images and videos of prototypes of all manner of electric and “hydrogen” vehicles but reality is a whole different world.

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WLJ

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  Jeff Bezos has been in the news recently asking where are his Amazon electric delivery vans.
No there isn’t .


Lots of fancy images and videos of prototypes of all manner of electric and “hydrogen” vehicles but reality is a whole different world.

*cough* Blue Origin *cough*
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230RN

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Re: Biden/EPA puts the brakes on USPS's new trucks over climate change concerns
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2022, 03:52:35 AM »

Noble goals aside, I'm not anxious to hear about two hydrogen-powered vehicles colliding.

High pressures have consequences.

Huge volumes of flammable gas-air mixtures have consequences.

dogmush

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Re: Biden/EPA puts the brakes on USPS's new trucks over climate change concerns
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2022, 09:51:28 AM »

Hydrogen Fuel cell cars don't run on compressed hydrogen.  They generate it on board.


Other than the LPG busses and such, I don't think there are passenger vehicles running on high pressure gas.

RoadKingLarry

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Re: Biden/EPA puts the brakes on USPS's new trucks over climate change concerns
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2022, 09:54:17 AM »

Noble goals aside, I'm not anxious to hear about two hydrogen-powered vehicles colliding.

High pressures have consequences.

Huge volumes of flammable gas-air mixtures have consequences.

Wouldn't quite work that way but it would be glorious to watch(from a safe distance) if it did.  :rofl:
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Nick1911

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Re: Biden/EPA puts the brakes on USPS's new trucks over climate change concerns
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2022, 10:04:58 AM »

Hydrogen Fuel cell cars don't run on compressed hydrogen.  They generate it on board.

Generate it from what?  ???

MechAg94

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Re: Biden/EPA puts the brakes on USPS's new trucks over climate change concerns
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2022, 10:06:35 AM »

Hydrogen Fuel cell cars don't run on compressed hydrogen.  They generate it on board.


Other than the LPG busses and such, I don't think there are passenger vehicles running on high pressure gas.
Not all of them.  There are companies that have set up hydrogen fueling stations to load compressed hydrogen. 
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dogmush

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Re: Biden/EPA puts the brakes on USPS's new trucks over climate change concerns
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2022, 11:24:01 AM »

Actually, I'm wrong.  I thought the fuel cells using hydrogen were getting it from water, but they go the other way, Hydrogen and Oxygen in, water and electricity out.

I guess that just proves I'm not a chemist.

They must have hydrogen storage on board somewhere.

Nick1911

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Re: Biden/EPA puts the brakes on USPS's new trucks over climate change concerns
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2022, 01:12:15 PM »

I've never been enamored with the concept of using diatomic hydrogen as a fuel.  It can't be liquefied at temperatures and pressure that are practical, so it must be stored as a very high pressure gas.  That limits the quantity that can be stored, and means the container must be very sturdy, and should be periodically tested.

Heavier molecules are both more energy dense, and able to be compressed to a liquid.

Consider a 20lb BBQ grill propane cylinder.  Using propane, liquefied, there's 456 MJ of energy available.  Equal to 3.5 gallons of gasoline.  The volume needed for LPG and propane are roughly similar, propane takes up about 30% more room for the same energy.  The propane pressure correlates to temperature, here's a chart.  Propane cylinders are designed to have a maximum allowable working pressure of 300PSI.  Not crazy high, so the metal doesn't have to be all that thick.

If we filled that same cylinder with H2 at 300PSI, how much energy would that be?  By ideal gas law, we could cram about 375L of hydrogen in at STP. That's 33.7 grams.  Each gram burns completely to water producing 141kJ of heat.  So,  4.7MJ.  Equal to 12 tablespoons of gallon in energy content.  Not so good.

The solution is to raise the pressure, which is how non-condensable gasses are currently shipped and used.  But, the container has to be insanely more sturdy, which adds weight, and compression losses. 

Lets ask the question: Using currently accepted, safe, industry standard high pressure gas cylinders, what would we be looking at to store say the energy content you'd get in 10 gallons of gasoline?

A gallon of gasoline has 121MJ in in, so we want 1,210MJ. A Size 300 High Pressure Steel Cylinder has in internal volume of 49 liters, and can be pressurized to 2400 PSI.  It weights 132lbs.  At that pressure, it holds about 8000l of gas.  719g, or 101MJ.

Answer, we need 12 cylinders.  That's over 1,500lb for your hydrogen "gas tank".

Here's the other thing that should cause your eyebrow to raise about hydrogen fuel...  The explosive limits for gasoline are between 1.2% to 7.1%.  In concentrations outside of that range, gasoline isn't explosive. Propane is between 2.1% and 9.5%.  Hydrogen?  4% to 75%.

zxcvbob

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Re: Biden/EPA puts the brakes on USPS's new trucks over climate change concerns
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2022, 01:42:06 PM »

There are other ways to store hydrogen.  It's been a lot time since I looked it up so I can't recall the details.  I think they adsorb it into sintered metal or dissolve it in some solvent, like how acetylene is safely pressurized.

Everyone seems to ignore the energy required to compress or liquify the hydrogen once it's produced.  That might be okay if you're using nuclear energy to produce it, but I think they want to use windmills or solar panels.
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HankB

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Re: Biden/EPA puts the brakes on USPS's new trucks over climate change concerns
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2022, 02:47:34 PM »

Putting on my tinfoil conspiracy hat for a moment . . .

 [tinfoil]

Fed.gov may actually like people to own cars with a short range . . .
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Boomhauer

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Re: Biden/EPA puts the brakes on USPS's new trucks over climate change concerns
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2022, 02:51:44 PM »

The only electric vehicles Biden recognizes are the ones made in UNION factories.

The operative word is UNION - as UNIONS have funneled huge amounts of cash to (mostly) Democrat candidates in general and Biden's campaign in particular.

Bribery still works.

Word on the street is Biden might have stopped this because Oshkosh was planning to move at least some operations and possibly the mail truck plant to union free SC.
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RocketMan

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Re: Biden/EPA puts the brakes on USPS's new trucks over climate change concerns
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2022, 03:03:38 PM »

Not all of them.  There are companies that have set up hydrogen fueling stations to load compressed hydrogen.

And one of them had a big kaboom about a quarter mile from my house a couple of years ago.  Small H2 leak after hours in a storage room is the story we got.  Totaled a nearby house, damaged several others including my next door neighbor.
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WLJ

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Re: Biden/EPA puts the brakes on USPS's new trucks over climate change concerns
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2022, 07:50:22 AM »

Finally

Quote
BREAKING: President Biden just acknowledged Tesla as the nations largest electric vehicle manufacturer! @elonmusk

“From iconic companies, like GM and Ford building out new electric vehicle production, to Tesla, our nations largest electric vehicle manufacturer.”
https://twitter.com/SawyerMerritt/status/1491135899325054976
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