Author Topic: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....  (Read 135031 times)

MechAg94

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #1400 on: April 17, 2022, 11:17:43 PM »
I know many here don't favor the U.S. getting directly involved in this little dust-up. I have been on the fence, severely conflicted on that question. Seeing this post, what popped into what's left of my brain was this:


   "First they came for the socialists Ukrainians, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist Ukrainian.

    Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.

    Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.

    Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."

"Never get into a land war in Asia."
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

MechAg94

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #1401 on: April 17, 2022, 11:22:35 PM »
The tank is certainly more limited now than it was at the height of the cold war with massive combined formations ready to roll with tanks as the vanguard.

Between man portable missiles, drones, IEDs, and the like tanks are pretty vulnerable again.  For our enemies throw in helicopters and A10s.  Obviously the "armor vs. arms" pendulum moves back and forth, but right now it's definitely favoring weapons. 

Maybe it's time to build some Bolo's
Except the passive and active protections from such weapons are already developed just expensive.  I think Chieftain also pointed out on an older video that many of the Ukraine videos don't show for sure if the tank was destroyed and also don't show many top of the line tanks getting hit. 

I think it is just the ongoing armor vs weapons battle that has been going on for thousands of years. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

dogmush

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #1402 on: April 19, 2022, 09:00:09 AM »
One of the things we discovered in Iraq is that even modern tanks are pretty susceptible to the right IED.

A mobility kill may not destroy a tank, but it will stop it's mission, and tie down half a platoon in recovery.

kgbsquirrel

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #1403 on: April 19, 2022, 03:37:57 PM »
One of the things we discovered in Iraq is that even modern tanks are pretty susceptible to the right IED.

A mobility kill may not destroy a tank, but it will stop it's mission, and tie down half a platoon in recovery.

You can always build a bigger bomb than you can build a tank.  Iirc it was an antitank mine rigged for command det and boosted with three 152mm shells.

dogmush

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #1404 on: April 19, 2022, 03:45:30 PM »
You can always build a bigger bomb than you can build a tank.  Iirc it was an antitank mine rigged for command det and boosted with three 152mm shells.

It happened way more than once. Usually they were command det artillery shells, yes.


kgbsquirrel

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #1405 on: April 19, 2022, 04:56:29 PM »
It happened way more than once. Usually they were command det artillery shells, yes.

Well no duh is happened more than once.  I was citing what was seen to kill an M1 Abrams, which is currently the heaviest armor rolling.  You can always pile more boom boom into a hole in the ground.

MillCreek

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #1406 on: April 19, 2022, 08:50:42 PM »
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/04/18/anatoly-antonov-russia-ambassador-00025744

It is difficult being the Russian Ambassador to the US these days. Although he does make a good point about there are many things in our mutual national interests that would make sense to work on together.
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Snohomish County, WA  USA


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You are one lousy risk manager.

Fly320s

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #1407 on: April 19, 2022, 09:04:09 PM »
"Never get into a land war in Asia."

Ukraine is in Europe.  A big chunk of Russia is, too.
Islamic sex dolls.  Do they blow themselves up?

WLJ

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Brad Johnson

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #1409 on: April 20, 2022, 11:30:36 AM »
Apparently the Chechen hired guns are culling dissidents from the ranks in a rather violent and permanent way.

https://currently.att.yahoo.com/att/cm/f-cking-shoot-them-chechen-114857260.html

Yeah, executing your own soldiers for wanting out of an unprovoked, ill-conceived, and unethical military action is sure to up your support on the home front.

Brad
« Last Edit: April 20, 2022, 05:22:52 PM by Brad Johnson »
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Brad Johnson

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #1410 on: April 20, 2022, 12:36:52 PM »
And apparently the internal rumblings are getting louder.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/russian-officials-questioning-putins-decision-to-invade-ukraine-report

When your ultra-lux yachts, Mediterranean villas, and "special" overseas accounts start getting seized, you tend to pay attention.

Brad
It's all about the pancakes, people.
"And he thought cops wouldn't chase... a STOLEN DONUT TRUCK???? That would be like Willie Nelson ignoring a pickup full of weed."
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Ben

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #1411 on: April 20, 2022, 05:05:37 PM »
Ruskies just did an ICBM test launch today. That's kind of North Koreany.

https://youtu.be/CO0OPE4YPdI
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JTHunter

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #1412 on: April 20, 2022, 11:44:35 PM »
Ruskies just did an ICBM test launch today. That's kind of North Koreany.

https://youtu.be/CO0OPE4YPdI

And, based on past actions (esp. recent past), Putin has demonstrated that he may be unbalanced enough already to "push the button".
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HankB

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #1413 on: April 21, 2022, 07:41:06 AM »
Apparently the Chechen hired guns are culling dissidents from the ranks in a rather violent and permanent way.

https://currently.att.yahoo.com/att/cm/f-cking-shoot-them-chechen-114857260.html

Yeah, executing your own soldiers for wanting out of an unprovoked, ill-conceived, and unethical military action is sure to up your support on the home front.

Brad
I've heard stories like this before with the armies of other despots, and I'm always wondering - why don't the troops mutiny rather than simply accept their deaths? Especially with "foreign" mercenaries doing the culling. In ancient times, the Romans would decimate - kill every 10th man - in units that didn't perform. The threat then was that OTHER legions would then kill everyone. But in MODERN times that could very easily lead to a full-fledged revolution.
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MechAg94

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #1414 on: April 21, 2022, 08:57:05 AM »
Ukraine is in Europe.  A big chunk of Russia is, too.
If we went to war in the Ukraine, I am sure we would only fight in Europe. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

WLJ

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #1415 on: April 21, 2022, 11:20:17 AM »

Don't know enough about the subject to know whether to throw rocks or not

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WLJ

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #1416 on: April 21, 2022, 07:13:05 PM »
Things that make you go Hmmm

2 Russian oligarchs were found dead one day apart alongside their wives and children, reports say
https://www.businessinsider.com/2-russian-oligarchs-found-dead-spain-moscow-reports-2022-4

Two Russian Oligarchs Die in Mysterious Circumstances 24 Hours Apart
https://www.newsweek.com/oligarchs-murder-suicide-1699766
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RocketMan

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #1417 on: April 21, 2022, 08:52:23 PM »
Murder-suicide.  Sure.
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

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sumpnz

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #1418 on: April 21, 2022, 09:18:40 PM »
Murder-suicide.  Sure.

Most people suicide by double taps to the back of their head.  It’s not just an Arkansas thing, contrary to popular belief.

Jim147

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #1419 on: April 21, 2022, 09:20:51 PM »
Most people suicide by double taps to the back of their head.  It’s not just an Arkansas thing, contrary to popular belief.

You don't know what they had on the Clintons.
Sometimes we carry more weight then we owe.
And sometimes goes on and on and on.

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Angel Eyes

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #1420 on: April 21, 2022, 10:12:16 PM »
Someone is just cutting loose ends ...    https://youtu.be/sGr2jv4GieM?t=182
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Fly320s

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #1421 on: April 22, 2022, 06:59:51 AM »
Things that make you go Hmmm

2 Russian oligarchs were found dead one day apart alongside their wives and children, reports say
https://www.businessinsider.com/2-russian-oligarchs-found-dead-spain-moscow-reports-2022-4

Two Russian Oligarchs Die in Mysterious Circumstances 24 Hours Apart
https://www.newsweek.com/oligarchs-murder-suicide-1699766

I wonder if those oligarchs spoke out against Putin's war.
Islamic sex dolls.  Do they blow themselves up?

WLJ

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #1422 on: April 22, 2022, 11:41:05 AM »
How's this for a shift?

Quote
A few months ago, sending German tanks to a war zone would have led to public outrage. Today, German Chancellor Olaf Scholz is under fierce attack because he appears reluctant to do just that.

Some 55% of Germans say they want heavy weapons, such as tanks, sent to Ukraine, with 37% against.

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-61185469?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=6262aabe77811a20d37c93cf%26Germany%20steps%20up%20weapons%20supply%20amid%20public%20criticism%262022-04-22T14%3A18%3A39.278Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:c3517cc0-df43-43c2-8055-df1bfc69b66e&pinned_post_asset_id=6262aabe77811a20d37c93cf&pinned_post_type=share
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sumpnz

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #1423 on: April 22, 2022, 11:48:23 AM »
How's this for a shift?
 
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-61185469?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=6262aabe77811a20d37c93cf%26Germany%20steps%20up%20weapons%20supply%20amid%20public%20criticism%262022-04-22T14%3A18%3A39.278Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:c3517cc0-df43-43c2-8055-df1bfc69b66e&pinned_post_asset_id=6262aabe77811a20d37c93cf&pinned_post_type=share

Propaganda has been effective.

Putin is definitely a bad guy.  Still not entirely convinced Zelensky is a good guy.  He’s got titanium balls.  He’s been effective at rallying Ukrainians to fight the Russians.  But he’s still corrupt as hell.  What isn’t clear if that corruption is just the more or less benign self-enriching corruption or the murderous totalitarian corruption of Putin, just on a smaller scale.

Fly320s

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #1424 on: April 22, 2022, 12:05:00 PM »
Propaganda has been effective.

Putin is definitely a bad guy.  Still not entirely convinced Zelensky is a good guy.  He’s got titanium balls.  He’s been effective at rallying Ukrainians to fight the Russians.  But he’s still corrupt as hell.  What isn’t clear if that corruption is just the more or less benign self-enriching corruption or the murderous totalitarian corruption of Putin, just on a smaller scale.

The enemy of my enemy...

Most of the world dislikes Russia/Putin.  Less of the world dislikes Ukrain/Zelensky. 
Islamic sex dolls.  Do they blow themselves up?