War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....

[WLJ]

Him saying "As soon as possible" could mean anything from now to whenever Ukraine is ready to surrender.
And what about the disputed territories including Crimea   

[RocketMan]

I think it's just rhetoric to placate the Indian PM.  Putin's not stopping the war any time soon.  Though I would love to be wrong.

[dogmush]

At this point I don't think Ukraine is going to stop till they are back at 2013 borders

[Ron]

At this point I don't think Ukraine is going to stop till they are back at 2013 borders

Personally, I don't think Crimea or the Donbas region will be anything but Russian in our lives going forward. I suspect you may have better access to information than I do but on the other hand this is a full blown information war on a scale we've never seen, so who knows?

[Brad Johnson]

At this point I don't think Ukraine is going to stop till they are back at 2013 borders

I certainly wouldn't bet against it.

Brad

[dogmush]

Ukraine is pretty solidly pushing the Russians back, and have a pretty strong nationalist identity, a big part of which is being pissed at Russia.  As the aggrieved party, I think they will push until they get to their original borders, or until Russia starts winning again.

They have the people to sustain this level of fighting, and the west seems like it's going to keep them armed, conversely Russia is low on troops and munitions.  There's also the fact that the Ukraine has a decent core of Vetern professional troops, still and Russia is running out of conscripts and going to 4th tier replacements.

On top of all that, there seems to be a bunch of "Ukrainian" soldiers that seem to have Ft. Bragg addresses.  It's wierd.

All that said, Russia could pull a miracle out and start advancing again, or hold the line till winter when freezing Germans and Poles cause the NATO munitions support to dry up.

[HankB]

Related, Germany has seized three Russian gas plants. I can't help but think the "energy wars" outside of the physical conflict are going to get ugly. Even seizing those plants, I'm not sure where the EU is going to get enough actual gas to process through them to handle the Euro population.

Especially if they mysteriously blow up or catch fire.  ("You took my stuff - if I can't have it, you can't either.")

[MechAg94]

Mammoth Natural Gas Deposit Could be Lying Just South of Crete
https://greekreporter.com/2019/10/31/mammoth-natural-gas-deposit-could-be-lying-just-south-of-crete/

I saw a more recent report on this not too long ago.  I have no idea how long it will take to get wells in production and sending gas to the rest of Europe.  Probably take 10 years to get the wells and pipelines past EU red tape. 

[dogmush]

The EU is less likely to drill new wells than the Biden Administration. They'll let people freeze to death until the demand for gas reaches the capacity and call it "sustainable "

[MechAg94]

Zelensky says ‘torture chambers’ where civilians were abused found in Kharkiv region
https://www.yahoo.com/news/zelensky-says-torture-chambers-where-020816677.html

Zelensky said in an address that officials found premises where civilians were kept, including seven citizens of the Republic of Sri Lanka who were students at the Kupyansk Medical College. The group of Sri Lankan citizens are now receiving medical care, Zelensky added.

The United Nations said on Friday that it plans to send investigators to Izyum to examine the mass burial site, a move that Zelensky commended.

[Pb]

On top of all that, there seems to be a bunch of "Ukrainian" soldiers that seem to have Ft. Bragg addresses.  It's wierd.

Where did you learn that?

[dogmush]

Where did you learn that?

It is a relatively open "secret" that among the US citizens that volunteered to fight for Ukraine, JSOC is well represented.  I believe the story is they are guys that recently got out. 

[kgbsquirrel]

It is a relatively open "secret" that among the US citizens that volunteered to fight for Ukraine, JSOC is well represented.  I believe the story is they are guys that recently got out.

Can confirm.

[Blakenzy]

So it's way past being just another proxy army.

[cordex]

So it's way past being just another proxy army.

Just more in a sea of little green men.

[K Frame]

The EU is less likely to drill new wells than the Biden Administration. They'll let people freeze to death until the demand for gas reaches the capacity and call it "sustainable "

Article in Yahoo News today about how firewood is the new gold in Europe and wood stoves are selling out.

[Ron]

We've been in this war for a while now. Ukraine was just the latest front.

Unrestricted Warfare is the name of the game, it's all the rage. I think the empire might be behind the eight ball though, our enemies were rope a doping us. Russia, Iran and China in particular aren't interested in being vassal states.

Better hope we win and that the clowns that got us in this mess, as well as those that went along with it, are removed. We're (the US population) are in a tricky spot.

It's like watching the Sopranos, no good guys in the script. Plenty of victims and suckers though.

We'll probably all have shuffled off before it's all sorted out.

My opinion only, working theory subject to change and blah blah blah

[HankB]

So it's way past being just another proxy army.

So history repeats itself, in a way.

In Korea, there were hordes of Chicom "volunteers" fighting with the Norks.

And "volunteer" Russian pilots flying MIGs were flying out of Chinese bases against UN aircraft (mostly USAF and USN), having been granted a "safe haven" north of the Yalu by a Democrat POTUS, who also covered up Russian involvement lest it annoy the US public at large.

Foreign troops were involved in Vietnam and of course a contingent of Russia's "Wagner Group" was virtually wiped out (mostly by artillery and air strikes) in Syria about 4 years ago.

[MechAg94]

Came across this recently...

Army plans to ‘nearly triple’ production of artillery shells after US gives nearly 1 million to Ukraine
https://taskandpurpose.com/news/army-ramp-up-production-artillery-shells-rockets/

“We are seeking over a couple of years to nearly triple our production of 155 [mm shells],” Bush said on Wednesday. Congress has been supportive; we have funding; we are executing and making that happen. We are also, through support from Congress, working to dramatically increase our production rate for GLMRS missiles – Guided MLRS [Multiple Launch Rocket System], HIMARS [High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems] launchers – in most cases doubling or more than doubling current production rates.”

[RocketMan]

Came across this recently...

Army plans to ‘nearly triple’ production of artillery shells after US gives nearly 1 million to Ukraine
https://taskandpurpose.com/news/army-ramp-up-production-artillery-shells-rockets/

Until Congress cuts funding for the replenishment down the road.

[WLJ]

Until Congress cuts funding for the replenishment down the road.

Dems have better uses for the money since artillery shells don't vote

[dogmush]

Until Congress cuts funding for the replenishment down the road.

Nah, Dems are going to need that Arty for the Civil War.  They'll keep the funding.

[WLJ]

Nah, Dems are going to need that Arty for the Civil War.  They'll keep the funding.

They have F-15s and nukes

[HankB]

Until Congress cuts funding for the replenishment down the road.

No, they might just mandate going to some other manufacturer for DEI concerns like they did for M16 magazines.

[Pb]

No, they might just mandate going to some other manufacturer for DEI concerns like they did for M16 magazines.

What is this?