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Author Topic: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....  (Read 52648 times)

Ron

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #25 on: January 19, 2022, 06:23:48 PM »

Hopefully more folks are like me and have sobered up, thinking more clearly after being wined, dined and taken advantage of by the warmongering neocons.

Anyone notice the Democrats have been toeing the neocon line since Obama was elected?

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead

De Selby

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #26 on: January 19, 2022, 10:22:10 PM »

Hopefully more folks are like me and have sobered up, thinking more clearly after being wined, dined and taken advantage of by the warmongering neocons.

Anyone notice the Democrats have been toeing the neocon line since Obama was elected?

They were toeing it with Clinton as well.

Why is no one reporting on the Biden family links to Ukraine and Clinton history of involvement with the government turmoil there that preceded this crisis?

"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

WLJ

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2022, 10:27:54 PM »

Why is no one reporting on the Biden family links to Ukraine and Clinton history of involvement with the government turmoil there that preceded this crisis?

Is that a rhetorical question?
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
- Calvin and Hobbes

Ron

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #28 on: January 20, 2022, 08:13:31 AM »

They were toeing it with Clinton as well.

Why is no one reporting on the Biden family links to Ukraine and Clinton history of involvement with the government turmoil there that preceded this crisis?
All those reporters were all cancelled during the last presidential election. Literally.

Anyone here want to offer a suggestion on how getting involved in a conflict with Russia over the Ukraine is in the best interests of American citizens?

How is it in your best interest?
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead

dogmush

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #29 on: January 20, 2022, 08:34:46 AM »

All those reporters were all cancelled during the last presidential election. Literally.

Anyone here want to offer a suggestion on how getting involved in a conflict with Russia over the Ukraine is in the best interests of American citizens?

How is it in your best interest?

I make more money deployed than as a federal worker, and extra time deployed both makes my retirement check bigger, and moves the date I can retire and draw pay earlier.  So a decent "limited" war in Eastern Europe would let me go do logistics in a non sandy place and then retire with my full check when I'm like 51 or 52.  Also war with Russia would probably tank the stock market for a bit, so I could dump the extra cash I make into cheap stocks and mutual funds that are likely to make money in the 10 year rebound. :cool:


As for the US's best interests?  I got nothing.

Ron

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #30 on: January 20, 2022, 09:04:50 AM »

I make more money deployed than as a federal worker, and extra time deployed both makes my retirement check bigger, and moves the date I can retire and draw pay earlier.  So a decent "limited" war in Eastern Europe would let me go do logistics in a non sandy place and then retire with my full check when I'm like 51 or 52.  Also war with Russia would probably tank the stock market for a bit, so I could dump the extra cash I make into cheap stocks and mutual funds that are likely to make money in the 10 year rebound. :cool:

I suspect, esp at the higher levels, there are a lot of folks finding themselves in a similar position with similar perverse incentives that are in place.

The MIC is a pretty decent sized part of our economy. War historically has been used to artificially stimulate economies. A lot of people make a lot of money off of military conflicts.

The biggest potential downsides are by those in cannon fodder/pointy end of the spear roles I guess.

I don't trust our bureaucracy to make good war making decisions or health care decisions for me any more. My personal well being is pretty far down the list of priorities they take into consideration.
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead

RocketMan

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #31 on: January 20, 2022, 09:06:15 AM »

Anyone here want to offer a suggestion on how getting involved in a conflict with Russia over the Ukraine is in the best interests of American citizens?

How is it in your best interest?

A conflict with Russia is in no one's best interest, except perhaps for Biden.  It would detract from his ongoing problems and likely boost his poll numbers, as has happened with previous White House denizens.  And he could blame it on Trump and his alleged connections with Ukraine.
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

DittoHead

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #32 on: January 20, 2022, 09:21:12 AM »

Anyone here want to offer a suggestion on how getting involved in a conflict with Russia over the Ukraine is in the best interests of American citizens?

How is it in your best interest?
The goal of our involvement now would be to try to prevent a conflict which could quickly get out of control and eventually involve us anyway in a much more significant way.
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
We don’t need to rehash the history of the Second World War, but suffice to say that the unspeakable horror of the conflict taught our nation a cardinal lesson—we should use our might to prevent war, not end war.
That reasoning may not be convincing but it's the most coherent I've seen.
In the moral, catatonic stupor America finds itself in today it is only disagreement we seek, and the more virulent that disagreement, the better.

Ron

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #33 on: January 20, 2022, 09:27:17 AM »

The goal of our involvement now would be to try to prevent a conflict which could quickly get out of control and eventually involve us anyway in a much more significant way.
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.That reasoning may not be convincing but it's the most coherent I've seen.

That's been the warmongering neocon line for decades.

"Just trust the experts on this" doesn't work on me any longer.

The experts have a completely different set of priorities than the American people, the people that provide the soldiers they throw into the meat grinder every so often.
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead

MechAg94

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #34 on: January 20, 2022, 09:50:01 AM »

That's been the warmongering neocon line for decades.

"Just trust the experts on this" doesn't work on me any longer.

The experts have a completely different set of priorities than the American people, the people that provide the soldiers they throw into the meat grinder every so often.
I was looking at the notion that we have to do something because it could expand to other countries.  That line has been used to both drag us into conflicts as well as stop us short of finishing conflicts. 

I don't really want Russian invading its neighbors, but I also try to remember that this is on the other side of the world right on Russia's border. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

RocketMan

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #35 on: January 20, 2022, 09:55:53 AM »

There really isn't anything we can do to prevent Russia from invading Ukraine.  Whether they actually invade or not is solely up to Putin, being in practical terms a dictator running the country.  And he seems to exhibit a touch of megalomania, so he might well invade.
Our best move is to express our disapproval, but stay completely out of the conflict.
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

Jim147

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #36 on: January 23, 2022, 10:01:49 PM »

Crap, I think his handlers are about to wag the dog.
Sometimes we carry more weight then we owe.
And sometimes goes on and on and on.

BAH-WEEP-GRAAAGHNAH WHEEP NI-NI BONG

Lennyjoe

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #37 on: January 23, 2022, 10:45:05 PM »

Looks like Biden is pulling Americans out if Ukraine and talking above ding troops to NATO countries near Ukraine. 

WLJ

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #38 on: January 23, 2022, 11:09:14 PM »

Praying I won't be feeling the need to get the glue out

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
- Calvin and Hobbes

kgbsquirrel

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #39 on: January 23, 2022, 11:50:39 PM »

Watch the news for Polish Ukrainian soldiers attacking a German Russian radio station

You mean like the Russian numbers station that was just hijacked?

Nick1911

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #40 on: January 23, 2022, 11:52:55 PM »

A news report noted that Biden is contemplating sending 5000 US soldiers to Ukraine... Could we please just not involve ourselves here?

kgbsquirrel

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #41 on: January 23, 2022, 11:56:08 PM »

I really don't understand why Russia is upset that they might lose their only seaport on the Black Sea to NATO.

What's the big deal? Why would they look at recruiting Ukraine into NATO as a security threat?

Just because that's their border and is their only access to the Black Sea?

Check an atlas.  Russia had black sea ports before they anschlussed Crimea.  Now they have more and better black sea ports.

dogmush

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #42 on: January 24, 2022, 04:43:39 AM »

Now they have Sevastopol and the naval support assets there.

WLJ

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #43 on: January 24, 2022, 07:26:08 AM »

Watch the news for Polish Ukrainian soldiers attacking a German Russian radio station
You mean like the Russian numbers station that was just hijacked?



And now for my next trick....
Now where did I leave that glue?

You got a link to that story?
« Last Edit: January 24, 2022, 07:40:38 AM by WLJ »
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
- Calvin and Hobbes

Ron

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #44 on: January 24, 2022, 08:07:54 AM »

Apparently, from back during the original Crimea event, I carried over a misunderstanding about Russian access to the Black Sea.

That doesn't change the strategic significance of Sevastopol or the rest of their seaports for that matter.
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead

Hawkmoon

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #45 on: January 24, 2022, 09:43:05 AM »


I don't really want Russian invading its neighbors, but I also try to remember that this is on the other side of the world right on Russia's border.

Is Ukraine a threat to Russia? Even if Ukraine were to join NATO, is Putin seriously claiming that NATO is going to invade Russia?

MechAg94

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #46 on: January 24, 2022, 09:53:18 AM »

Did someone mention Ukraine invading anyone?   I don't know what Putin is planning.  He could just be rattling sabers to try to force some concessions out of The Ukraine. 

As far as NATO, I would rather see NATO shrink than expand. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

RocketMan

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #47 on: January 24, 2022, 10:00:38 AM »

A news report noted that Biden is contemplating sending 5000 US soldiers to Ukraine... Could we please just not involve ourselves here?

Do you have a link to this report?  If true, he's doing it to bolster his poll numbers.  Wars have been known to do that for an embattled president.
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

WLJ

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #48 on: January 24, 2022, 10:02:20 AM »

Did someone mention Ukraine invading anyone?   I don't know what Putin is planning.  He could just be rattling sabers to try to force some concessions out of The Ukraine. 

That's the hope but considering how passive most NATO members have been in the past they must think something is afoot.
Putin's ace in this is his ability to turn off the natural gas to Europe and it's winter. Wasn't Trump trying to get natural gas exports to Europe going to help avoid that little problem?
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
- Calvin and Hobbes

Nick1911

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #49 on: January 24, 2022, 10:03:25 AM »

Do you have a link to this report?  If true, he's doing it to bolster his poll numbers.  Wars have been known to do that for an embattled president.

https://nypost.com/2022/01/23/us-draws-down-ukraine-embassy-presence-as-war-fears-mount/
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