Author Topic: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....  (Read 130956 times)

WLJ

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #525 on: March 03, 2022, 07:41:47 PM »
One hopes they have better safety systems and a less dangerous design than Chernobyl had.  I could definitely see a TMI level problem.  I’d hope that Chernobyl level problems, let alone worse, wouldn’t be able to happen.  At least not without deliberate action to make it that bad.

I know but a guy named Murphy has a really bad habit of showing up.
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WLJ

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #526 on: March 03, 2022, 07:46:55 PM »
Quote
Europe's largest nuclear plant is on fire, say local officials
The Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant is the largest in Europe
Getty ImagesCopyright: Getty Images

A fire has reportedly broken out at the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant, the largest in Europe.

It appears to have been caused by "continuous enemy shelling of [the plant's] buildings and units", according to Mayor Dmytro Orlov of nearby Enerhodar.

Orlov had previously reported intense fighting between Ukrainian and Russian forces on the outskirts of his city, which is in the southeast.

Russian troops had tried to enter the city in tanks and seize the plant, but residents and workers were seen congregating around the plant and its surrounding roads on Wednesday.

Ukraine has four active nuclear plants including Zaporizhzhia.

It also deals with nuclear waste at sites like Chernobyl, now under Russian control.

The International Atomic Energy Agency said earlier today that it is consulting with Ukraine "and others with a view to provide maximum possible assistance to the country as it seeks to maintain nuclear safety and security in the current difficult circumstances".
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-60582327
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WLJ

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #527 on: March 03, 2022, 08:00:51 PM »
6 reactors
Produces more than 1/5 of Ukraine's electricity

Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaporizhzhia_Nuclear_Power_Plant

Unconfirmed #2 & 3 have been shut down.
Also unconfirmed that at least one reactor building has been struck by artillery
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WLJ

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #528 on: March 03, 2022, 08:12:01 PM »
One worry is any spent fuel in storage.
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Ben

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #529 on: March 03, 2022, 08:25:08 PM »
I notice that given the recent nuke and WW3 talk, that potassium iodide tablets are suddenly scarce right now. The 130mg ones, not the 0.25mg ones available on Amazon as supplements.
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WLJ

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #530 on: March 03, 2022, 09:30:33 PM »
Russian General reportedly killed

Top Russian general is killed by Ukrainian sniper as Kyiv claims 9,000 of Putin’s troops have died during invasion
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10573429/Top-Russian-general-killed-Ukrainian-sniper-Kyiv-claims-9-000-Putins-troops-died.html
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WLJ

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #531 on: March 03, 2022, 09:32:21 PM »
From the link above

Cleanup in aisle 5

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Angel Eyes

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #532 on: March 03, 2022, 10:30:13 PM »
... and now the Russians are fleeing:

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/russia-martial-law-putin-ukraine-invasion/

Quote
Fears are growing Russia could impose martial law on the country after a wave of mass protests against the invasion of Ukraine.

In a society where protest against the Kremlin can result in tragic consequences for demonstrators, such a move would tighten restrictions even further – with speculation they would stretch to food and money.

Reports say thousands of people have fled as rumours about tough new laws grew this week
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Angel Eyes

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #533 on: March 03, 2022, 10:32:18 PM »
Russian General reportedly killed

Top Russian general is killed by Ukrainian sniper as Kyiv claims 9,000 of Putin’s troops have died during invasion
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10573429/Top-Russian-general-killed-Ukrainian-sniper-Kyiv-claims-9-000-Putins-troops-died.html

Of course, my first thoughts are: what rifle, what caliber, and what range?
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Bogie

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #534 on: March 03, 2022, 10:37:18 PM »
Guessing 9mm, from a handgun, at about 6"...
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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #535 on: March 04, 2022, 12:02:09 AM »
Buildings on fire.
This could be Chernobyl x10 if it gets out of hand.
Time for some vodka

Why, they running 10x RBMK's in a reckless manner?

Somehow I doubt we are going to have a reactor steam explosion 10x worse than chernobyl.

Nick1911

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #536 on: March 04, 2022, 12:15:51 AM »
Why, they running 10x RBMK's in a reckless manner?

Somehow I doubt we are going to have a reactor steam explosion 10x worse than chernobyl.

I'll give bogie a half-pass on this one.

Ukraine's foreign minister stated:
Quote
Russian army is firing from all sides upon Zaporizhzhia NPP, the largest nuclear power plant in Europe. Fire has already broke out. If it blows up, it will be 10 times larger than Chornobyl! Russians must IMMEDIATELY cease the fire, allow firefighters, establish a security zone!

That said, 1) this is an active war, and the foreign minister is using rhetoric to attempt to persuade further action from other nations to help Ukraine, and B) the intended audience (the general public of the west) is dumb enough to conflate reactor meltdowns and steam explosions with nuclear bombs.

What the Russian army is actually trying to do is knock out the electrical infrastructure supplying power to Ukraine in an effort to control the flow of information and demoralize the populace.  How would I go about this if I were so tasked?  I'd take out the step up transformers at the site which up-convert the voltage from the generators to transmission levels.  What do we know about the situation?  "The reactors are safe, but a building 400m from them is on fire"  Hmmm....

Ben

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WLJ

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #538 on: March 04, 2022, 08:21:24 AM »
Reasons this was/is giving me the willies

1) Artillery was being reportedly fired and a reactor building reportedly hit. How tough those buildings and the confinement areas are I have no clue.

2) Spend fuel rod are often stored in much less protected areas.

3) What condition are the control systems in?

4) Don't know the condition of the staff and their mindset.

5) How willing either through ignorance or malice are the Russians to start leveling the place if they meet stiff resistance? I would hope they're smarter than that but if past wars are any lesson.....

6) Only takes one nut to say screw it and say if the Russians want Ukraine they can have it as a wasteland. Don't ever underestimate what can go through people's minds when stressed to the max.

7) Putlin doing the above but for the opposite reason.

8) And, this is the big one, because Murphy loves *expletive deleted*ing with us



 
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WLJ

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WLJ

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #540 on: March 04, 2022, 08:30:40 AM »
I can hear it now.
The Ukrainians should have built more windmills
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Ron

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #541 on: March 04, 2022, 08:59:06 AM »
Pat Buchanan has a more coherent take on this than anything you are seeing or hearing on TV.

https://www.unz.com/pbuchanan/is-a-russia-nato-clash-over-ukraine-ahead/

He sort of echoes the 2015 discussion at the University of Chicago I posted earlier.

Ukraine is of serious strategic value to Russia.
Ukraine has no strategic value to the USA.

All I can figure is the globalists have decided it's time to destroy Russia. That is the only reason I can imagine for promoting EU and NATO membership for a country that is so crucial to Russia strategically. Putin has made it clear for at least a decade that there would be a military response to any attempt to bring Ukraine into NATO. This leads me to believe the globalists wanted war in Ukraine as a pretense to destroy Russia financially.

The countries that border Russia are looked at by Russia much like we hold our Monroe Doctrine. NATO troops in a bordering country will not be tolerated, anymore than we would tolerate Chinese troops stationed in Canada or Russian troops in Mexico.

Putin is not a madman, he is not unstable. He is going to take over all of Ukraine, probably wreck the infrastructure possibly giving some of it back, but only with ironclad guarantees of Ukraine neutrality going forward.



« Last Edit: March 04, 2022, 09:12:07 AM by Ron »
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

DittoHead

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #542 on: March 04, 2022, 09:14:14 AM »
All I can figure is the globalists have decided it's time to destroy Russia. That is the only reason I can imagine for promoting EU and NATO membership for a country that is so crucial to Russia strategically.

It doesn't matter how important Ukraine is to Putin, it's not his country. He made the decision to invade yet you keep trying to spread blame to everyone else for Putin's decision.
In the moral, catatonic stupor America finds itself in today it is only disagreement we seek, and the more virulent that disagreement, the better.

WLJ

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #543 on: March 04, 2022, 09:26:23 AM »
As far as bordering countries joining NATO. A lot of these countries still have strong memories of being unwilling members of the Russian Empire and the later Soviet Union and suffering heavily under their rule and only recently regained their independence. Putin is not helping by giving every indication he longs for the old days of the empire.
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Ron

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #544 on: March 04, 2022, 09:29:15 AM »
Well, I hope you warmongers enjoy the war that folks just like you created.

For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

WLJ

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #545 on: March 04, 2022, 09:32:47 AM »
Well, I hope you warmongers enjoy the war that folks just like you created.

I think you miss my point.

Could NATO have dealt with this better? Certainly. But put yourself in the place of many of these smaller countries with Putin looking at you across the border.
All of these countries suffered greatly under Russian/Soviet rule in the recent pass, you expect them to forget that overnight?
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MillCreek

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #546 on: March 04, 2022, 09:42:21 AM »
^^^When my wife and I took a Nordic/Russia/Baltics cruise a couple of years ago, I was struck by all the memorials to Soviet aggression in the Baltics compared to almost none regarding the Nazis. I wondered if that was in part trying to overlook the history of colloboration with the Nazis in some of the countries.
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RocketMan

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #547 on: March 04, 2022, 09:42:49 AM »
Quote
Putin is not a madman, he is not unstable.

Wrong.  You haven't looked at his history, what he has done in his twenty-plus years in power.  Consider everything he has done to remain in power.  He is certainly sociopathic, and very probably much worse.  Megalomania comes to mind.
The world has been treating Putin as a rational actor.  He is not.
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

Ron

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #548 on: March 04, 2022, 09:46:26 AM »
I think you miss my point.

Could NATO have dealt with this better? Certainly. But put yourself in the place of many of these smaller countries with Putin looking at you across the border.
All of these countries suffered greatly under Russian/Soviet rule in the recent pass, you expect them to forget that overnight?

NATO was the enemy of Russia/USSR for 45 years. Do you expect Russia to forget that as NATO pursues moving right on to their border?

The western empire wants what the western empire wants.

Russia doesn't stand a chance against the western empire, unless China takes Russia's side.

I'm thinking China will sell Russia down the river. The globalists and China must want Russia weakened.

If we have driven Russia and China closer together with this fiasco that might be worse yet.

 
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

WLJ

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #549 on: March 04, 2022, 09:49:11 AM »
I have had serious thoughts that maybe he's dying and he want his legacy to be that of bringing the Empire back together as Czar Putin I
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