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Author Topic: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....  (Read 30604 times)

kgbsquirrel

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #1500 on: May 13, 2022, 06:11:10 PM »

So we're really going to do this dance then?

Perhaps that's Putin's plan for economic recovery.  Let NATO run into the Urals, than soak up that sweet US reconstruction money we always throw around after an invasion.

The Bear That Roared?  ;)

HankB

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #1501 on: May 14, 2022, 08:57:53 AM »

The Bear That Roared?  ;)
Hey, unless the rest of NATO's new hardware is better than the US Navy's Littoral Combat ships, the result might be a Duchy of Grand Fenwick Russian win.
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #1502 on: May 14, 2022, 10:24:30 AM »

What's so awful about the LCS platform?  I hear people dogging it frequently but I don't grok why it's so bad.  I've heard about the hull cracks, but that could happen with any ship.  People seem to have animosity to the notion of a coastal / shore craft.

I find it rather amusing that the Navy has more Littoral craft than the Coast Guard, but then again the Coast Guard doesn't engage in shore combat (yet... until the government finds some way to benefit from shelling US beachgoers). 
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kgbsquirrel

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #1503 on: May 14, 2022, 12:11:59 PM »

What's so awful about the LCS platform?  I hear people dogging it frequently but I don't grok why it's so bad.  I've heard about the hull cracks, but that could happen with any ship.  People seem to have animosity to the notion of a coastal / shore craft.

I find it rather amusing that the Navy has more Littoral craft than the Coast Guard, but then again the Coast Guard doesn't engage in shore combat (yet... until the government finds some way to benefit from shelling US beachgoers).

It's the size of a FF, with less capability than a PT, while being more expensive than a DDG, and fragile to the point of early structural failure from light operations.

WLJ

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #1504 on: May 14, 2022, 12:19:02 PM »

Not sure if this means Turkey is softening it's stance or not but it appears the PKK is the sticking point.

Quote
Kalin said the militant Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) - designated a terrorist organisation by Turkey, the United States and the European Union - was fund-raising and recruiting in Europe and its presence is "strong and open and acknowledged" in Sweden in particular.

"What needs to be done is clear: they have to stop allowing PKK outlets, activities, organisations, individuals and other types of presence to...exist in those countries," Kalin said.

"NATO membership is always a process. We will see how things go. But this is the first point that we want to bring to the attention of all the allies as well as to Swedish authorities," he added. "Of course we want to have a discussion, a negotiation with Swedish counterparts."

Exclusive: Turkey 'not closing door' to Sweden, Finland NATO entry, Erdogan advisor says
https://www.reuters.com/world/exclusive-turkey-not-closing-door-sweden-finland-nato-entry-erdogan-advisor-says-2022-05-14/
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WLJ

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #1505 on: May 14, 2022, 12:22:34 PM »

It's the size of a FF, with less capability than a PT, while being more expensive than a DDG, and fragile to the point of early structural failure from light operations.

The DC class
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kgbsquirrel

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #1506 on: May 14, 2022, 12:24:53 PM »

K Frame

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #1507 on: May 14, 2022, 12:30:39 PM »

Turkey has been a NATO member since 1952.

I've got a lot of serious reservations about Turkey's membership these days. They've made a hard, hard turn towards Islamic religious ideology in the past 15 or so years.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #1508 on: May 14, 2022, 06:28:48 PM »

Turkey has been a NATO member since 1952.

I've got a lot of serious reservations about Turkey's membership these days. They've made a hard, hard turn towards Islamic religious ideology in the past 15 or so years.

If I were the King of NATO, I'd trade Turkey for Finland and Sweden in a heartbeat. I wouldn'r even ask foir a future draft pick.

kgbsquirrel

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #1509 on: May 14, 2022, 06:34:33 PM »

Turkey has been a NATO member since 1952.

I've got a lot of serious reservations about Turkey's membership these days. They've made a hard, hard turn towards Islamic religious ideology in the past 15 or so years.

Ata-Turk's dream is definitely dead.  :'(

Hawkmoon

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #1510 on: May 14, 2022, 08:45:07 PM »

Ata-Turk's dream is definitely dead.  :'(

At least until Erdogan is gone. A lot of the Turkish people don't like him or his policies, but they're afraid to say or do anything.

Angel Eyes

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #1511 on: May 14, 2022, 09:33:07 PM »

Not sure if this means Turkey is softening it's stance or not but it appears the PKK is the sticking point.

Exclusive: Turkey 'not closing door' to Sweden, Finland NATO entry, Erdogan advisor says
https://www.reuters.com/world/exclusive-turkey-not-closing-door-sweden-finland-nato-entry-erdogan-advisor-says-2022-05-14/

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WLJ

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #1512 on: May 15, 2022, 01:01:23 PM »

Finland and Sweden have said they're applying for membership.
Needs to be approved by parliament(s) though. Not expected to be problem.

And saw this
Erdogan could be saying one thing in public and another in private. Not uncommon.

Quote
President Sauli Niinisto says he spoke to the Turkish president Recep Tayyip Erdogan a month ago in which Erdgan said he would support Finland joining Nato, so he says he is "confused" by reports Turkey may object and says he is prepared to speak to him again.
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-61441664?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=6280d7d99f4dc85502039202%26No%20indication%20of%20any%20problems%20with%20us%20joining%20Nato%2C%20says%20Finnish%20PM%262022-05-15T10%3A45%3A40.520Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:1ea34cc5-32c9-4fb5-ad6a-f1e003dbe9b1&pinned_post_asset_id=6280d7d99f4dc85502039202&pinned_post_type=share
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WLJ

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Pb

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #1514 on: May 16, 2022, 09:47:15 AM »

I don't agree with expanding NATO.  The USA does not need to commit itself to going to war on behalf of foreign countries, especially against a nuclear power.

MillCreek

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Snohomish County, WA  USA


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You are one lousy risk manager.

RocketMan

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If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

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WLJ

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WLJ

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« Last Edit: May 17, 2022, 08:47:22 AM by WLJ »
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Lennyjoe

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #1519 on: May 17, 2022, 08:30:33 AM »

Wow the female in that video is drinking the Russia is Supreme koolaide. 

MechAg94

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #1520 on: May 17, 2022, 10:22:04 AM »

It's all fun and games until someone takes your Happy Meal away.
Or someone will start the new McRusskie's franchise. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

WLJ

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #1521 on: May 17, 2022, 10:24:06 AM »

Or someone will start the new McRusskie's franchise.

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And broken ice cream machines of course
« Last Edit: May 17, 2022, 10:44:20 AM by WLJ »
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Jim147

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #1522 on: May 17, 2022, 02:19:18 PM »

If you ever worked on one of those machines you would be lucky if it's broke.
Sometimes we carry more weight then we owe.
And sometimes goes on and on and on.

BAH-WEEP-GRAAAGHNAH WHEEP NI-NI BONG

Angel Eyes

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #1523 on: May 18, 2022, 01:50:23 PM »

U.S. may be (probably will be) sending another $40B in aid to Ukraine:

https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2022/05/18/holy-cash-cow-heres-a-breakdown-of-the-40-billion-aid-package-for-ukraine/

Well, not exactly to Ukraine:

Quote
The bill — which will be considered by the Senate this week — would authorize about $20 billion for the Department of Defense, and includes:

— $17 billion for U.S. military operations, including the Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative, and to replace U.S. military equipment sent to Ukraine;
— $1.8 billion in U.S. military equipment for Ukraine;
— $414 million for “research, development, test and evaluation” related to the Ukraine war;
— $15 million for U.S. troop pay related to the war; and
— $13.9 million for the Defense Health Program.

An additional roughly $20 billion is for Ukraine bilateral assistance, the State Department, international organizations, and other agencies, and includes:

— $8.77 billion in economic assistance for Ukraine;
— $4.35 billion in humanitarian aid for Ukraine;
— $4 billion for foreign military financing program (run by the State Department);
— $900 million for the Administration for Children and Families for refugee and entrant assistance;
— $500 million for the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development;
— $400 million for international narcotics control and law enforcement to combat human trafficking and collect evidence of war crimes;
— $350 million for the State Department’s Migration and Refugee Assistance;
— $190 million for the State Department for “Diplomatic Programs”;
— $150 million for the Global Agriculture and Food Security Program;
— $110 million for the State Department for embassy security, construction, and maintenance;
— $100 million for the State Department for non-proliferation, anti-terrorism, de-mining and related programs;
— $67 million for the Justice Department;
— $54 million for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to carry out public health and disease detection related to Ukraine;
— $17 million for the United States Agency for International Development (USAID);
— $10 million for the State Department’s “Capital Investment Fund”;
— $4 million for the State Department’s Office of Inspector General;
— $2 million for “salaries and expenses” to provide regulatory and technical support; and
— $1 million for USAID’s Office of Inspector General.

The $40 billion would be in addition to the $13.6 billion in aid that Congress passed in March, for a total of roughly $53 billion over the period of two months — the largest foreign aid package to move through Congress in at least two decades, according to the New York Times.

Somewhere in there is "10% for the Big Guy"

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WLJ

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #1524 on: May 18, 2022, 01:56:00 PM »

And that's on top of the $13B we already sent

13B + 40B = $53 billion

Russia's entire defense budget was $60-65* billion in 2021




* Varies a bit according to who you ask.
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