Train Robbers

[HankB]

The main issue to me is the thieves have no fear of the consequences of their actions.  That needs to be fixed somehow.

My old next door neighbor was a cop - plainclothes - in Chicago.

He said that every year there were over a dozen "murders" he knew of (and he didn't work ALL murders in Chicago - just a tiny fraction) that appeared to be "good riddance" killings - a known perp shot at close range in an alley or subway platform at night, but not robbed and sometimes with his own gun or knife laying nearby. The general cop consensus was that the deceased had made a catastrophic failure in his victim selection process. They didn't try too hard to solve these, and the newspapers didn't report them either.

[Andiron]

The main issue to me is the thieves have no fear of the consequences of their actions.  That needs to be fixed somehow.

I'd say that summary justice would be just the thing.  Caught in the act, no question of guilt, and at that point *expletive deleted*ck your "due process", you're a POS and we can remedy that with a rope and gravity.

[ConstitutionCowboy]

I'd say that summary justice would be just the thing.  Caught in the act, no question of guilt, and at that point *expletive deleted*ck your "due process", you're a POS and we can remedy that with a rope and gravity.

I have no idea how much gravity costs these days, but a bullet is cheaper than a rope, and the energy expended to oppose the force of gravity to raise a body high enough to make a lynching effective is much more than that required to raise a gun and pull a trigger, and there would be less chances of getting caught. Oh, and use a revolver so there will be no cases left behind.

Woody

[cordex]

While justice is appealing, I have no illusions that summary justice is necessarily more righteous or fair than the broken system we have now.

How many times have we seen angry mobs attacking individuals in attempts to dispense "summary justice" that were absolutely unjust?

[WLJ]

While justice is appealing, I have no illusions that summary justice is necessarily more righteous or fair than the broken system we have now.

How many times have we seen angry mobs attacking individuals in attempts to dispense "summary justice" that were absolutely unjust?

Then the government needs to step up and keep up their end of the deal to prevent that. Seems like lately they've forgotten all about holding up their end.

[cordex]

Then the government needs to step up and keep up their end of the deal to prevent that. Seems like lately they've forgotten all about holding up their end.

No argument there.  It is the inevitable but horrifying result of the government failing to fulfill one of their core responsibilities.  Unfortunately the end result of mob justice is more likely to be unfair targeting of outsiders and unpopular people/groups rather than real bad guys.

[RoadKingLarry]

[dogmush]

Seriously?

They are just going to average the loss rate and amortize the losses into the shipping or product costs.  They probably already did that anyway, so they just need to adjust a variable in their "$100 of free insurance with the cost of shipping" algorithm.  Why would they risk anything more that the perfunctory Police presence they already pay for?  The train company is 100% not covering these losses unless insurance was bought, in which case their rates are calculated to not lose money.  The owners of the retail packages are just passing the costs to the customers in either prices or shipping fees.  Why would they risk anything to stop it?

When the DOD was running supplies into Afghanistan through Karachi and Pakistan we just assumed and planned for a 20% loss rate between the ports and border crossings.  You need 100 widgets?  send 120.  Adjust the costs and move on with the mission.  I expect Amazon has a similar plan and a carefully studied loss rate.

[HankB]

Seriously?

They are just going to average the loss rate and amortize the losses into the shipping or product costs.  They probably already did that anyway, so they just need to adjust a variable in their "$100 of free insurance with the cost of shipping" algorithm.  Why would they risk anything more that the perfunctory Police presence they already pay for?  The train company is 100% not covering these losses unless insurance was bought, in which case their rates are calculated to not lose money.  The owners of the retail packages are just passing the costs to the customers in either prices or shipping fees.  Why would they risk anything to stop it?

When the DOD was running supplies into Afghanistan through Karachi and Pakistan we just assumed and planned for a 20% loss rate between the ports and border crossings.  You need 100 widgets?  send 120.  Adjust the costs and move on with the mission.  I expect Amazon has a similar plan and a carefully studied loss rate.

If you KNOW something is likely to get stolen, there's an opportunity there. I remember as a kid hearing about a couple of gunshop owners who used to ship packages to one another back in the days when USPS required 1" red letters reading FIREARMS to be printed on packages. (I THINK this was pre-GCA '68) They shipped insured packages back and forth to one another, knowing that the chances of such a package making it through the USPS facilities in Chicago were slim. The insurance payments allegedly totaled up to a tidy sum. Profit!

[Andiron]

While justice is appealing, I have no illusions that summary justice is necessarily more righteous or fair than the broken system we have now.

How many times have we seen angry mobs attacking individuals in attempts to dispense "summary justice" that were absolutely unjust?

Hence my caveat of "caught in the act".

I'm sick of this *expletive deleted*it.  Our society is broken,  and we keep making excuses for the human trash breaking it.  factoring in 20% and passing it on to the consumer is bullshit.

[Bogie]

.22LR, moderately accurized, with a suppressor and night vision. About a 2-300 yard distance, preferably with a natural barrier to cross. Fire a shot or magazine, depending, then unass the AO, and go somewhere else. A 10/22 with 10 rounds and a good wet can could send enough of the thieves to local emergency rooms to start the rumors going...

[Pb]

Quite a few parts of the country have decided that enforcing laws against criminals is racist, and not to be done.  If this is not reversed, our murder rate will soon be what it what it was in 70-80's... if not worse.   

[dogmush]

.22LR, moderately accurized, with a suppressor and night vision. About a 2-300 yard distance, preferably with a natural barrier to cross. Fire a shot or magazine, depending, then unass the AO, and go somewhere else. A 10/22 with 10 rounds and a good wet can could send enough of the thieves to local emergency rooms to start the rumors going...

OK Ronin.  maybe back away from the MCU a little.

[Fly320s]

OK Ronin.  maybe back away from the MCU a little.

Other than the distace, it is a good plan.  Get a bit closer and use subsonic ammo.

[WLJ]

Seriously?

They are just going to average the loss rate and amortize the losses into the shipping or product costs.  They probably already did that anyway, so they just need to adjust a variable in their "$100 of free insurance with the cost of shipping" algorithm.  Why would they risk anything more that the perfunctory Police presence they already pay for?  The train company is 100% not covering these losses unless insurance was bought, in which case their rates are calculated to not lose money.  The owners of the retail packages are just passing the costs to the customers in either prices or shipping fees.  Why would they risk anything to stop it?

When the DOD was running supplies into Afghanistan through Karachi and Pakistan we just assumed and planned for a 20% loss rate between the ports and border crossings.  You need 100 widgets?  send 120.  Adjust the costs and move on with the mission.  I expect Amazon has a similar plan and a carefully studied loss rate.

Are you seriously suggesting we should just laid down and accept this and be like Karachi?

[dogmush]

Are you seriously suggesting we should just laid down and accept this and be like Karachi?

No, I'm suggesting we already have.  Theft from trucks and trains is not new. FFS there's a whole western movie trope about it.  It *might* be higher this year then in recent years, or those news outlets might be looking for clicks.  But even if it is trending up the folks who's property it actually is have, decades ago, figured transit loss into the cost of doing business, and we all tacitly accepted that.  Should we strive to enforce a rule of law in our society where everyone is treated justly and property rights are secure?  Absolutely, and we aren't doing the best job of that.  But the bullshit keyboard vigilantism on display in this thread is both juvenile and unrealistic, and as bad for the goal of rule of law as the train robberies.  So I am mocking them, as well as the folks clutching their pearls and exclaiming in shock that Highway Men exist.  FFS.

Other than the distace, it is a good plan.  Get a bit closer and use subsonic ammo.

Nothing about it is good, starting from the cringy "Tell me you've never shot under NODS without telling me you've never shot under NODS" to the overt cheerleading for illegal acts, which as I recall is a violation of APS rules.  It's mental masturbation.  If Bogie's that good with a suppressed 10/22 maybe he should start with cleaning up St. Louis first.  I know he has a lathe.  Why don't you go vigilante on some gangbangers shooting up your neighborhood before traveling to the rail yard?


We should want a return to rule of law, not advancing to rule of "cap anyone I see breaking a law".  You guys are advocating for civilization ala Baghdad 2009, and don't even know it.

[Nick1911]

Well said on all counts, dogmush.

.22LR, moderately accurized, with a suppressor and night vision. About a 2-300 yard distance, preferably with a natural barrier to cross. Fire a shot or magazine, depending, then unass the AO, and go somewhere else. A 10/22 with 10 rounds and a good wet can could send enough of the thieves to local emergency rooms to start the rumors going...

Please refrain from discussing the commission of murders on APS.

[WLJ]

I've been trying to keep my posts more as a warning that's what many people feel like they're are being pushed to by an inactive government on the matter.

[230RN]

dogmush said in part:

"But the bullshit keyboard vigilantism on display in this thread is both juvenile and unrealistic, and as bad for the goal of rule of law as the train robberies."

Concur.  I was and am getting worried about some of the "why wait for the law, we know they're guilty, let's string them up now" mentality displayed.

That shows the same infantile simplicity as the "defund the cops" and "no-bail" adherents.

I don't like paying extra for "transit losses" either.

We have a problem, let's deal with it rationally.  If you have to consistently vote for the lesser evil, do so, and don't walk away, but next time around get with your local party and volunteer to voice conservative values, staple newsetters, go door to door....

...on the other side, that's how whole States go blue, friends.

Whole States.

[charby]

Wasn't stealing from ports and airports bread and butter for the Mafia for a long time? This doesn't seem too different.

[K Frame]

Wasn't stealing from ports and airports bread and butter for the Mafia for a long time? This doesn't seem too different.

Yep.

Only what's going on right now is more freelance than organized.

[RocketMan]

Wasn't stealing from ports and airports bread and butter for the Mafia for a long time? This doesn't seem too different.

Perhaps a bit different in scale.  The Mafia tends to target specific shipments if I recall correctly.  These mobs are targeting entire trains.

[RocketMan]

.22LR, moderately accurized, with a suppressor and night vision. About a 2-300 yard distance, preferably with a natural barrier to cross. Fire a shot or magazine, depending, then unass the AO, and go somewhere else. A 10/22 with 10 rounds and a good wet can could send enough of the thieves to local emergency rooms to start the rumors going...

Lousy idea for all the usual reasons.  Plus, the feds and local popo would be targeting the folks playing vigilante, expending all their effort to catch them.  They would still ignore the train robbers.

[Bogie]

Via the Colonel...
 
It would seem desirable to devise a system which would make sure, first, that the riot would stop; and second, that only the leaders would feel the weight of social disapproval.

Let us consider such a means - the 22-caliber rimfire rifle.  This weapon, properly sighted and equipped with a noise suppressor, may be used with surgical delicacy to neutralize mob leaders without risk to other members of the group, without noise and with scant danger of death to the subject.  A low-velocity 22 bullet in the lung will not knock a man down, and in these days of modern antisepsis it will almost never kill him if he can get to a hospital in a reasonable time.  It will, however, absolutely terminate his interest in leading a riot.
 
I guess things have changed from the Colonel's time...

[Andiron]

Via the Colonel...
 
It would seem desirable to devise a system which would make sure, first, that the riot would stop; and second, that only the leaders would feel the weight of social disapproval.

Let us consider such a means - the 22-caliber rimfire rifle.  This weapon, properly sighted and equipped with a noise suppressor, may be used with surgical delicacy to neutralize mob leaders without risk to other members of the group, without noise and with scant danger of death to the subject.  A low-velocity 22 bullet in the lung will not knock a man down, and in these days of modern antisepsis it will almost never kill him if he can get to a hospital in a reasonable time.  It will, however, absolutely terminate his interest in leading a riot.
 
I guess things have changed from the Colonel's time...

It's legitimate.  When TPTB won't do their jobs very little is off the table IMO.