Musk and Twitter

[Hawkmoon]

I, too, have suffered a great deal from Big Tech censorship. Lost to mankind forever are many of my unfathomably deep, sophisticated, witty, urbane, polished, erudite, deeply researched and broadly-sourced - yet refreshingly down-to-earth and accessible, eminently readable - thoughts and musings.

I must go now, and broodingly ponder the sadness of it all.


Sorry, what are we talking about?

You left out the part about the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune ...

[WLJ]

 

    My pronouns are Prosecute/Fauci

    — Elon Musk (@elonmusk) December 11, 2022

https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/12/11/elon-musk-drops-his-pronouns-and-omg-lol-it-does-not-look-good-for-fauci-next-twitterfiles/

[Ben]

Suddenly it's important to be in this country legally.

https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/12/14/suddenly-a-whole-bunch-of-left-wing-accounts-are-tweeting-about-elon-musks-us-citizenship-status/

[K Frame]

Well of course they are. He is an absolute 100% undesirable. He should be ejected right on his arrogant ass, and he needs to take his $7 billion in tax payments with him! We don't need his filthy money!

[K Frame]

https://www.newsweek.com/elon-musk-being-investigated-over-his-us-citizenship-fact-check-1767025

[DittoHead]

New policy on "doxxing" which seems to have an ever-widening definition much like shadow banning.

Musk had vowed to not ban the account last month, but Twitter on Wednesday suspended it and other jet trackers as the platform updated its doxxing policy to ban the sharing of individuals’ live location information.

Elon should probably stop calling himself a free speech absolutist, unless we're going to redefine that too.

[Ben]

New policy on "doxxing" which seems to have an ever-widening definition much like shadow banning.Elon should probably stop calling himself a free speech absolutist, unless we're going to redefine that too.

I'm a bit torn on that one. He's definitely not being a free speech absolutionist here. He IS being a parent. The whacko climbed on the car his child was in. I would be prepared to take physical action, to include running the person over, and I would be in the right (though Johnny Law might still arrest me)*. Elon likely has some philosophical growing pains to go through getting this right on the new twitter.

As an aside, the stalker (or maybe another one) is dressed antifa-fashion.

https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/12/15/elon-musk-drops-the-hammer-proves-he-aint-playin-when-it-comes-to-thugs-threatening-his-family/


* It would be easier to be a free speech absolutionist if it meant actions had consequences. If you dox someone, that someone gets to shoot whoever attacks him, and you, the doxxer, go to jail. For murder if the attacker dies. The doxxee goes free and gets a handshake from the Sherriff for a job well done.

[cordex]

New policy on "doxxing" which seems to have an ever-widening definition much like shadow banning.Elon should probably stop calling himself a free speech absolutist, unless we're going to redefine that too.

Elon is certainly not living up to his own hype, but overall what direction do you think Twitter has moved?

[Bogie]

Overall, I'd say Twitter has moved toward the better. People can talk about the same sort of stuff we talk about here, without fear of getting nuked.
 
Facebook, on the other hand - you say something, like maybe about a certain felonious government employee who was too cheap to buy his own tacky dresses, and get dogpiled...

[RocketMan]

Considering Musk has received a number of death threats recently, I don't have a problem with the blocking real-time tweets about his or his family's movements if they have not been publicly announced by him or his team.

[cordex]

Considering Musk has received a number of death threats recently, I don't have a problem with the blocking real-time tweets about his or his family's movements if they have not been publicly announced by him or his team.

No, it's a BS application of a policy crafted to fit the specific scenario.  The account in question republishes public flight data for his aircraft.

Of course, most of the people seizing on and mocking this particular bit of hypocrisy are not doing so in defense of decreased censorship.

[RocketMan]

No, it's a BS application of a policy crafted to fit the specific scenario.  The account in question republishes public flight data for his aircraft.

Of course, most of the people seizing on and mocking this particular bit of hypocrisy are not doing so in defense of decreased censorship.

So public figures have no right to maintain some semblance of safety for themselves and their families?  Even when there are documented threats against them?  Got to maintain absolute free speech even if it kills people under active threat.   

[DittoHead]

Elon is certainly not living up to his own hype, but overall what direction do you think Twitter has moved?

It seems to be moving in a few directions at once. As a "free speech haven" I would guess it has improved a bit, although it's still in the same realm of restrictiveness as any other large social media player. If you're really interested in unrestricted free speech then your best bet is probably whatever cesspools spun off of 4chan. As a topic of discussion Twitter has skyrocketed - there are articles about Twitter drama every day. Most of them are negative but I suspect Elon is starting to take the Trumpy approach of any press is good press. As a profitable business Twitter seems to be moving in the wrong direction. Although it's possible that one of the many ideas Elon is throwing at the wall might stick, I still think it's going to continue its downward trend. Advertisers are scared by the unpredictability and very few users love twitter enough to pay for it.

I think it's still a dysfunctional place for honest & reasonable discussion, and for news/opinion reading I prefer going direct to various sources instead of whatever the social media algorithm decides to show me.

[Bogie]

Just wondering - can y'all see me on Facebook right now?

[sumpnz]

Just wondering - can y'all see me on Facebook right now?

This morning I could.

[kgbsquirrel]

So public figures have no right to maintain some semblance of safety for themselves and their families?  Even when there are documented threats against them?  Got to maintain absolute free speech even if it kills people under active threat.   

Smells like Alinski.  "Make them live up to their own rules to the point it kills them." Paraphrased.

[MechAg94]

It seems to be moving in a few directions at once. As a "free speech haven" I would guess it has improved a bit, although it's still in the same realm of restrictiveness as any other large social media player. If you're really interested in unrestricted free speech then your best bet is probably whatever cesspools spun off of 4chan. As a topic of discussion Twitter has skyrocketed - there are articles about Twitter drama every day. Most of them are negative but I suspect Elon is starting to take the Trumpy approach of any press is good press. As a profitable business Twitter seems to be moving in the wrong direction. Although it's possible that one of the many ideas Elon is throwing at the wall might stick, I still think it's going to continue its downward trend. Advertisers are scared by the unpredictability and very few users love twitter enough to pay for it.

I think it's still a dysfunctional place for honest & reasonable discussion, and for news/opinion reading I prefer going direct to various sources instead of whatever the social media algorithm decides to show me.

On the last part of that, that is all I used Twitter for when I was using it.  Following specific people who posted news/event/information.  As for the first part, Twitter isn't much better or worse than anywhere on the internet except now they aren't banning/restricting conservatives as much. 

I follow Mrgunsngear on Instagram.  He posts a lot of gun related news and events.  A bunch of his posts are deleted by Instagram every week.  If I am watching daily, I can see most of them before they are deleted.  A lot of people keep multiple backup Instagram accounts so they can keep going when the first account is deleted. 

[cordex]

So public figures have no right to maintain some semblance of safety for themselves and their families?  Even when there are documented threats against them?  Got to maintain absolute free speech even if it kills people under active threat.   

Of course he can.  He is more capable than most in providing protection for his families.  I'm not worried that the publicly accessible flight information about his private jet is out there, nor is banning that account going to conceal the information.

[cordex]

It seems to be moving in a few directions at once. As a "free speech haven" I would guess it has improved a bit, although it's still in the same realm of restrictiveness as any other large social media player. If you're really interested in unrestricted free speech then your best bet is probably whatever cesspools spun off of 4chan. As a topic of discussion Twitter has skyrocketed - there are articles about Twitter drama every day. Most of them are negative but I suspect Elon is starting to take the Trumpy approach of any press is good press. As a profitable business Twitter seems to be moving in the wrong direction. Although it's possible that one of the many ideas Elon is throwing at the wall might stick, I still think it's going to continue its downward trend. Advertisers are scared by the unpredictability and very few users love twitter enough to pay for it.

I think it's still a dysfunctional place for honest & reasonable discussion, and for news/opinion reading I prefer going direct to various sources instead of whatever the social media algorithm decides to show me.

Do you believe the more pronounced and partisan censorship of pre-Musk Twitter was preferable?

[WLJ]

Government Warns That With Elon Owning Twitter They Will Only Control 97% Of The Media
https://babylonbee.com/news/government-warns-that-with-elon-owning-twitter-they-will-only-control-97-of-the-media

"We can't overstate how dangerous this is," said gay black Press Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre. "Yes, we still control Facebook, Google, Apple, Instagram, YouTube, ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, The Washington Post, The New York Times, Hollywood, TIME, USAToday, The Wall Street Journal, and pretty much all the rest, but we don't control Twitter. This is dangerous to democracy."

[Ben]

Of course he can.  He is more capable than most in providing protection for his families.  I'm not worried that the publicly accessible flight information about his private jet is out there, nor is banning that account going to conceal the information.

Which, this is not me arguing your point, but rather throwing another variable out there:

So yeah, anyone with an ounce of initiative could do the same flight tracking this guy does. In fact it's probably the same amount of time to go to a flightracking site as it is to go to this guy's site. And certainly Elon can afford top notch security (should he have to is another topic).

How about poorer people on twitter though that might be doxxed and have no means to hire security and no pull with law enforcement? This is where it gets tricky and I have no answer. We can argue that Elon is a public figure, so he needs to suck it up, but if a nobody is doxxed to the point of it threatening their well-being, do we allow that "free speech absolutism" or are there legitimate reasons to censor the doxxers?

Again, if there were sufficient punishments for doxxers, antifa who think smacking someone in the head with a bat is "free speech" (and get away with it), and others, much of this wouldn't come up.

[cordex]

How about poorer people on twitter though that might be doxxed and have no means to hire security and no pull with law enforcement? This is where it gets tricky and I have no answer. We can argue that Elon is a public figure, so he needs to suck it up, but if a nobody is doxxed to the point of it threatening their well-being, do we allow that "free speech absolutism" or are there legitimate reasons to censor the doxxers?

Again, if there were sufficient punishments for doxxers, antifa who think smacking someone in the head with a bat is "free speech" (and get away with it), and others, much of this wouldn't come up.

I have a hard time believing Twitter is going to start banning accounts over saying where a "little person" is.  The rule as I understand it would even seem to prohibit someone live tweeting that they saw anyone else anywhere or tweeting a picture of someone in an identifiable location.  Not sure how that would be enforced in good faith.

My impression is that this is something Elon thinks is a clever way to paint principles on convenience.

[dogmush]

I'm starting to get fed up with doxxing hysteria.  Yeah, it sucks that there are crazies in this world who will absolutely do shitty things to people they disagree with, but most of the time "doxxing" is simply collating already public information.  Given how so many on both sides throw around "doxxer" as an epithet and use it as a way to silence opponents they don't like I start to wonder if the juice is worth the squeeze with stopping it.

Why can't we just settle on "if the speech is not unlawful, then it stays up, and if it is unlawful, we turn it over to law enforcement."?  Every time we start down the rabbit hole of "well this is bad, or that may condone violence" we end up here, where whoever is in charge gets to suppress whatever they don't like.


Like Tim Pool recently said on Timcast IRL, if you go to someone's house that was doxxed with nefarious purpose, you'll get shot.  Let that be the solution.

[Ben]

Like Tim Pool recently said on Timcast IRL, if you go to someone's house that was doxxed with nefarious purpose, you'll get shot.  Let that be the solution.

I would be absolutely happy with everyone saying what they want and the above being the solution for moving from speech to a physical act. I'd really like it more if law enforcement everywhere also universally accepted it as a proper solution.

And I admit, I often conflate doxxing with swatting.

[230RN]

 Yes, doxxing and swatting are pretty parallel by their very nature --cowardly enlisting the help of others to punish an adversary.

Worms.