Author Topic: ATF Checks Homeowner For Straw Purchases  (Read 967 times)

Ben

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ATF Checks Homeowner For Straw Purchases
« on: July 19, 2022, 10:13:00 AM »
Interesting interaction. They acknowledge the guy did nothing wrong. Note the suburban feel of the neighborhood.

Seven guns between JAN and now. I think I bought that many my first month in Idaho. They needed to check all seven, but were good with one. Interesting interaction.

This was in Delaware. I don't know state reporting requirements there. The video seems to allude that two or more firearms purchased at the same time have to be reported to the ATF, even if you're in a state where your CCW gets you out of the NICS check.

https://youtu.be/OFE9Yl2X57A
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

Brad Johnson

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Re: ATF Checks Homeowner For Straw Purchases
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2022, 10:44:38 AM »
Multi-gun reporting requirement applies to all handguns. Some requirements, varying by state, for certain types of rifles.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/reporting-multiple-firearms-sales

ATF Form 3310.4. There's a different form for rifles but I don't remember the number.

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dogmush

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Re: ATF Checks Homeowner For Straw Purchases
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2022, 10:59:17 AM »
I'm half waiting for a knock on my door over the one set of suppressor parts I haven't form 1'd yet.  It feels like ATF is hitting a bunch of the low threat, low hanging fruit this year.  Much safer and easier to check on suburban dad's possible straw purchase in Delaware rather than the 20 Glock auto sears that shipped to Compton.

WLJ

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Re: ATF Checks Homeowner For Straw Purchases
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2022, 11:03:19 AM »
.  Much safer and easier to check on suburban dad's possible straw purchase in Delaware rather than the 20 Glock auto sears that shipped to Compton.

Yep, far less chance of getting shot at and their government issued car jacked.
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Pb

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Re: ATF Checks Homeowner For Straw Purchases
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2022, 03:42:17 PM »
I'm half waiting for a knock on my door over the one set of suppressor parts I haven't form 1'd yet.  It feels like ATF is hitting a bunch of the low threat, low hanging fruit this year.  Much safer and easier to check on suburban dad's possible straw purchase in Delaware rather than the 20 Glock auto sears that shipped to Compton.

The batfe has declared all solvent traps illegal suppressors, and is denying anyone the ability for make a form 1 suppressor from one.  In order to get your form 1 approved, they are requiring the applicant to describe in detail the parts used to make the suppressor.

If you have a solvent trap, you might as well throw it away.

Pb

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Re: ATF Checks Homeowner For Straw Purchases
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2022, 03:43:11 PM »
A federal firearms registry is illegal, and yet we still have the government accosting people about buying too many guns.   :angel:

dogmush

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Re: ATF Checks Homeowner For Straw Purchases
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2022, 04:05:33 PM »
The batfe has declared all solvent traps illegal suppressors, and is denying anyone the ability for make a form 1 suppressor from one.  In order to get your form 1 approved, they are requiring the applicant to describe in detail the parts used to make the suppressor.

If you have a solvent trap, you might as well throw it away.
I've been watching that whole thing. My plan is to try and use the tube and fabricate the baffles. They want a description and pictures of the raw material submitted with the Form 1, so I figure a chunk of stainless round stock sitting on my lathe will be a decent visual for them. Worst they can say is "No".

I'm kinda curious where they draw the line.  Can I use a threaded tube bought off a solvent trap site?  Can I start with a Maglite?  Do I have to start with raw DOM tubing?  Aluminum Ore?  I'm not super concerned, as I cans now, and cans on form 4's waiting for freedom, so if I'm just out the $100 or so on the solvent trap the world won't end. I just figure since I have it, I might as well try to do the paperwork. 

FWIW, the Eforms site just asks you for where you got the materials to build it, and a description of the process you intend to use to make it.  I guess I could get off my but and drop the form to see what happens.

Nick1911

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Re: ATF Checks Homeowner For Straw Purchases
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2022, 04:44:18 PM »
When did these form 1 suppressor complications start?

MechAg94

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Re: ATF Checks Homeowner For Straw Purchases
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2022, 05:24:00 PM »
A federal firearms registry is illegal, and yet we still have the government accosting people about buying too many guns.   :angel:
I heard that highlighted also.  They weren't just asking about the multiple gun purchase, they were asking about 7 guns bought year to date. 

They were in suburbia, but there were three officers in the video I saw and the other two was standing back like they were ready to draw. 

Since they had no warrant, is there anything they could do it he just told them he still had them and closed the door?  I guess they could come back with a warrant.
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dogmush

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Re: ATF Checks Homeowner For Straw Purchases
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2022, 05:31:51 PM »
When did these form 1 suppressor complications start?

March

AJ Dual

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Re: ATF Checks Homeowner For Straw Purchases
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2022, 05:43:15 PM »
It feels like ATF is hitting a bunch of the low threat, low hanging fruit this year.  Much safer and easier to check on suburban dad's possible straw purchase in Delaware rather than the 20 Glock auto sears that shipped to Compton.

I don't know how ATF investigations work, but I'm guessing they get a list given to them and just told, "go make these contacts". I'd be surprised if they just get to fish for "anything" they want, in some FED LE version of a local street cop who needs to pull over X number of drivers each month.

What would be interesting to me is if the "7 firearms purchased since January" were all in separate transactions more than five business days apart.

Quote
- ATF Form 3310.4 Report of Multiple Sale or Other Disposition of Pistols and Revolvers Instruction #1:

Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs) must use this form to report all transactions in which an unlicensed person (i.e., non-FFL holder) acquired any combination of two or more pistols or revolvers totaling two or more at one time or during five consecutive business days.

There is also the Report of Multiple Sale or Other Disposition of Certain Rifles - ATF Form 3310.12 as well. For any rifles over .22LR that take a detachable magazine.

Because if none of the guy's purchases triggered a form 3310.4 or 3310.12, then they got him from NICS, Or by riffling through the paper 4473's of local dealers. As far as I'm aware, Delaware has no state background system for gun purchases, only the Federal NICS. And Delaware has no purchase permits.

My best guess is that either way, the agents knew this was probably a lousy call for them to be making. Based on the purchaser's record and the types of firearms purchased alone. They probably had no discretion if they were allowed to make the visit or not.

I think they are probably trying to track down a particular individual or set of straw buyers/second-hand dealers, but have little to nothing to go on, so are being forced to cast a ridiculously wide net.

I'm kind of doubtful that the ATF is so slow that they're getting sent out to do stop-n-knocks on everyone who "Purchased X firearms in Y months." etc.
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Ben

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Re: ATF Checks Homeowner For Straw Purchases
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2022, 06:05:34 PM »
They probably had no discretion if they were allowed to make the visit or not.

I could buy that. Not that it makes it less wrong, but I did get a "Can you just show us something so we can leave?" vibe from the video.

Sorta like maybe the new boss at ATF has an agenda and told them to go and harass legal gun owners.  =)
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

Ben

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Re: ATF Checks Homeowner For Straw Purchases
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2022, 06:55:23 PM »
A quote from the accosted gun owner. I would feel the same way.

https://youtu.be/9vcxcF7o8Do?t=380
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

MikeB

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Re: ATF Checks Homeowner For Straw Purchases
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2022, 09:08:39 PM »
Something sort of like this happened to my Fathet about 20 years ago. He bought 3 or 4 1911 frames, probably Caspian at one time. He likes to buy parts kits and build 1911’s. Never for sale, just a hobby. I ended up with a couple he built over the years as gifts for various occasions.

In his case they did not show up at his house, but called him on the phone. They did if I recall correctly want initially to schedule a visit, but after he explained these were just frames he was intending to build as custom 1911’s for personal use they didn’t bother showing up and told him it was fine.

This is not exactly a new thing; the multiple purchase form mentioned above by another poster has been around for a long time. I’ve seen a few other videos like this over the years. Personally I’ve never had this happen, but I don’t think I’ve bought more than 2 guns at the same time ever.

WLJ

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Re: ATF Checks Homeowner For Straw Purchases
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2022, 09:10:55 PM »
They're going to hate me if I hit the lottery. May have to assign me my own personal agent.  :laugh:
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