Author Topic: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade  (Read 33036 times)

dogmush

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If I had to guess DeSantis won't run that.  He'll sit on the law he just passed and let the Dem run on killing all the kids all the time.  But Ron has surprised me before.

Ben

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"Do you think Abortion should be legal in cases of incest, and where the mom's health is in danger?"  or some version of that 68% of folks would say yes.

I'm willing to bet that if you add in "before "X" weeks, that combination is a large part of the 68%. I bet (hope, really) that the tik tok morons who get all the attention and who hold abortion parties and pop champagne after their "instead of birth control" abortions are a smaller number of the percentage.
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dogmush

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I'm willing to bet that if you add in "before "X" weeks, that combination is a large part of the 68%. I bet (hope, really) that the tik tok morons who get all the attention and who hold abortion parties and pop champagne after their "instead of birth control" abortions are a smaller number of the percentage.

Agreed.  I was thinking about how I would ask that question if I wanted to show majority support for legal abortion, which I suspect media polls do.

Perd Hapley

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One might expect that if a particular form of child abuse was legal in half the states, the other states might well prosecute those who took their children across state lines* for the purpose.

What seems likely to happen, if some states take that approach to abortion, is that red-state women who think they might be pregnant, and might want to abort, would just keep quiet about it, and go to the nearest legal abortion clinic for a pregnancy test. Scratch that – they’ll get a free test from Planned Parenthood, or whatever local left-wing org is handing them out. If they test positive, they’ll also get a free ride to the aforementioned nearest legal abortion clinic, and maybe even a free abortion.

The point being, abortion won't be prosecuted, if no one knows there was a child there to begin with. 2-month pregnant girl goes to a neighboring state, and returns, and no one knows she was ever pregnant.

Predictions of police state tactics on behalf of the embryo-friendly states - why? Because Republicans have proven to be so adept at that sort of thing? Yeah, OK.


*Crossing state lines will become legal again!
 
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AZRedhawk44

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One might expect that if a particular form of child abuse was legal in half the states, the other states might well prosecute those who took their children across state lines* for the purpose.


Should it be acceptable for California to arrest and prosecute people that go over to Nevada or Arizona to buy a gas generator for their RV?  Or gas powered lawn equipment, that has been made illegal to sell in California?

Beware empowering States to prosecute for behaviors outside their jurisdictions.
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charby

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Should it be acceptable for California to arrest and prosecute people that go over to Nevada or Arizona to buy a gas generator for their RV?  Or gas powered lawn equipment, that has been made illegal to sell in California?

Beware empowering States to prosecute for behaviors outside their jurisdictions.

Or buying normal capacity magazines in a neighboring states, where as your home state only permits ownership of limited capacity magazines.

Iowa- 88% more livable that the rest of the US

Uranus is a gas giant.

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MechAg94

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Or buying normal capacity magazines in a neighboring states, where as your home state only permits ownership of limited capacity magazines.
The "68%" argument is the same as that used to say a majority support gun control also.
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charby

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The "68%" argument is the same as that used to say a majority support gun control also.

Apparently, you didn't see (find your own salt)
Iowa- 88% more livable that the rest of the US

Uranus is a gas giant.

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MechAg94

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What about the other end of the argument?  We have already seen pro-abortion absolutists talk about killing unwanted babies after birth.  It has happened in some places and been swept under the rug.  I can see one or two states pass something like that.  It would get murky if an anti-abortion state prosecuted someone for killing their post-birth-baby in another state.  Usually murder is jurisdictional so I don't see how that would work. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

MechAg94

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Apparently, you didn't see (find your own salt)
Wasn't meant as a criticism.  Just a comment since this is all hypothetical.   =) 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

MechAg94

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IMO, the most likely interstate court case will be groups like Planned Parenthood recruiting pregnant women in a ban state to get the abortions done in another state and ban states trying to stop it.  I am assuming Planned Parenthood will not close down their clinics in Texas.  Leftists lawyers will be looking for loopholes and that will trigger legislative reactions in ban states. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

K Frame

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Loving vs Virgina

Interracial marriage, Lovings were citizens of Virgina and got married outside Virgina and Virgina had laws on their books in regard to interracial marriage being illegal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loving_v._Virginia


I've met Philip Hirschkop a couple of times. Very interesting man, and still incredibly active. We've been trying to get him to speak at our County History Conference for a couple of years now.
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Perd Hapley

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Ordinarily, I'd be annoyed that people take "this will happen" to mean, "I want this to happen." But, hey, you got it right this time!

There's a very specific reason I referred to child abuse, and not some other crime. I could have also used the example of taking one's wife to a state where it's legal to have her forcibly sterilized. These are situations where people could commit serious crimes against members of their own families, w/o consequences, by simply taking them to states where horrific things are legal. Not much comparison there, to buying magazines or fireworks, or whatever. Mala in se, etc.

Are we OK with having The Purge states, where anyone can go to commit egregious crimes? This is far from hypothetical. What does Texas do if someone takes a child across state lines to "transition" them, and brings them back (because it's child abuse there now)? What did the U.S. do about slaves crossing state lines to become free? See the fugitive slave laws, and the Dred Scott decision.

But, like I said, even if it's perfectly reasonable to prosecute people for taking their children out of state to kill them, that doesn't mean it can be enforced. 
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K Frame

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No one's talking about one of the other possible side effects if this passes...

A huge increase in inter-state secession movements.

Northern Virginia is incredibly left leaning, much of the rest of the state is very conservative.

Southern California is Stalin's own heaven on earth; central and especially Northern California? Very conservative.

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Ben

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What about the other end of the argument?  We have already seen pro-abortion absolutists talk about killing unwanted babies after birth.  It has happened in some places and been swept under the rug.  I can see one or two states pass something like that.  It would get murky if an anti-abortion state prosecuted someone for killing their post-birth-baby in another state. Usually murder is jurisdictional so I don't see how that would work.

It would get murky if a PRO abortion state prosecuted someone for killing their post-birth baby in another state. I'm sure there are several states that would institute pro-abortion laws for some pre-birth term, but consider aborting a born baby murder.
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Nick1911

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Without trying to step in too much controversy:  Is there any serious pro-abortion group or faction that considers killing an infant after a successful natural birth to be abortion, and advocates for that as a matter of policy?

Angel Eyes

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Without trying to step in too much controversy:  Is there any serious pro-abortion group or faction that considers killing an infant after a successful natural birth to be abortion, and advocates for that as a matter of policy?

https://slate.com/technology/2012/03/after-birth-abortion-the-pro-choice-case-for-infanticide.html

https://freebeacon.com/issues/northman-on-40-week-abortion-bill-infant-would-be-delivered-and-then-a-discussion-would-ensue-between-the-physicians-and-the-mother/
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MillCreek

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Without trying to step in too much controversy:  Is there any serious pro-abortion group or faction that considers killing an infant after a successful natural birth to be abortion, and advocates for that as a matter of policy?

To which I would add: does this actually happen anywhere with some regularity in the United States?  I see that both of Angel's cites are more theoretical than reporting on actual happenings.  I have seen a number of conservative sites on Facebook cite the California bill: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/apr/06/facebook-posts/no-california-bill-wouldnt-allow-mothers-kill-thei/
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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

MechAg94

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https://slate.com/technology/2012/03/after-birth-abortion-the-pro-choice-case-for-infanticide.html

https://freebeacon.com/issues/northman-on-40-week-abortion-bill-infant-would-be-delivered-and-then-a-discussion-would-ensue-between-the-physicians-and-the-mother/
Thanks for those links.  I wish it wasn't something that has come up, but unfortunately it has.

I would also note for posterity that the whole Ralph Northam "black face" scandal hit the news 2 or 3 days after that interview hit the news.  The fact that Northam was talking about post-birth abortion hit the national news, then suddenly this other information was released and ALL the national news media switched over to that story almost instantly.  The abortion scandal was buried.  It was almost as if someone wanted that abortion comment out of the news and were willing to throw Northam under the bus and embarrass the new Virginia Dem Majority to do it.   
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MechAg94

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To which I would add: does this actually happen anywhere with some regularity in the United States?  I see that both of Angel's cites are more theoretical than reporting on actual happenings.  I have seen a number of conservative sites on Facebook cite the California bill: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/apr/06/facebook-posts/no-california-bill-wouldnt-allow-mothers-kill-thei/

1.  When Obama was running for President the first time, there was a Chicago area hospital that was accused of doing that while Mrs. Obama was on their board of directors.  What I remember is if an abortion was unsuccessful and the baby was still alive after removal, they would sit it in a closet and come back later when it was no longer alive.  Don't remember much else.  It never got much traction in the news.  I think it was only made public because people at the Hospital complained.  It was only certain doctors doing it. 

2.  There a law someone proposed in one of the states that was supposed to not only allow late term abortions out to 9 months, but specifically prohibited law enforcement from even investigating the issue if there was a complaint. 
https://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=66291.msg1346368#msg1346368
It was Maryland.  It was worse than I thought.
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MechAg94

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I could see myself being able to compromise on the abortion issue a bit in a sane world, but seeing some of these radicals being willing to go right over the line to infanticide makes me say no.  Can't compromise with that.  Yes, they are just radicals, but they are the ones who keep pushing and demand more compromises just like other issues.  It honestly makes me wonder what they do or want that I don't know about.  I hate to go down that rabbit hole.
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WLJ

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Suddenly horse medicine is okay

Motherboard suggests women wanting to induce abortions could take horse medicine
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/05/03/motherboard-suggests-women-wanting-to-induce-abortions-could-take-horse-medicine/
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MechAg94

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Democrats Enraged They May Have To Drive A Few Hours To Commit Murder
https://babylonbee.com/news/democrats-enraged-they-may-have-to-drive-a-few-hours-to-commit-murder

Quote
"A five-hour round trip just to be able to murder a baby? Does the oppression never end?" cried Senator Warren, surrounded by protesters. "No woman should ever have to fill up with gas in order to meet a hitman!"
----------------------------------------------------------
Democrats have vowed to fight tirelessly to ensure murder will remain as easy as possible. "It doesn't matter what it takes, even if it means an insurrection to overthrow the judiciary—whatever we have to do so kids can have their skulls crushed without too much hassle," said Senator Klobuchar.
:laugh: :rofl:
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Angel Eyes

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To which I would add: does this actually happen anywhere with some regularity in the United States?  I see that both of Angel's cites are more theoretical than reporting on actual happenings.

I don't see the point of your question.  Do we wait until babies are being discarded like in ancient Sparta before taking action to ban such atrocities?  Advocacy is the first step; implementation is the next.
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Ben

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To which I would add: does this actually happen anywhere with some regularity in the United States?  I see that both of Angel's cites are more theoretical than reporting on actual happenings.  I have seen a number of conservative sites on Facebook cite the California bill: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/apr/06/facebook-posts/no-california-bill-wouldnt-allow-mothers-kill-thei/

What about a day or a week before birth? I guess the points are that everyone has some cutoff from "zero" to "after birth". Individual state laws will certainly get interesting regarding the spectrum.

Jeremy at The Quartering actually made a couple of good points. In that before these sicko tik tok chicks that have contests to see who can have the most abortions, we had, "legal, safe and rare". While the abortion debate was certainly still contentious then as well, it was sort of working under the "don't ask, don't tell" tent. I think that a lot of pro-life people were working with "what I don't see..." because they weren't being smacked in the face by aborted babies. A lot of the pro life bills you see being passed by states now are a direct result of the, "loud and proud" aborters, IMO.

https://youtu.be/L1qrclBhB1g

And for some of the sickos he's referring to:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1521507103466164225
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