Author Topic: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade  (Read 33082 times)

lee n. field

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #125 on: May 04, 2022, 10:37:39 AM »
I also wonder if states like Texas/Oklahoma will tell Amazon (and other companies with similar policies) to leave the state.

Does no one else actually remember the way things actually were before Roe v. Wade?

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #126 on: May 04, 2022, 10:45:45 AM »
Does no one else actually remember the way things actually were before Roe v. Wade?

A quick check shows that the US median age is 38, so I'm gonna say no.
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fifth_column

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #127 on: May 04, 2022, 11:14:00 AM »
Does no one else actually remember the way things actually were before Roe v. Wade?

I was pretty young, definitely too young to worry about getting anyone pregnant when R v W passed. What was it like?
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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #128 on: May 04, 2022, 11:23:31 AM »
Does no one else actually remember the way things actually were before Roe v. Wade?

Looks like abortion was legal only in a few states.

From the WIKI page on Roe Vs. Wade

Quote
History of abortion laws in the United States
In 1821, Connecticut passed the first state statute banning abortion in the United States.[13] In 1868, abortion by itself was not legal before quickening in 27 out of all thirty-seven states. Altogether, 30 of the thirty-seven states and six of the ten U.S. territories had codified laws which restricted abortion[14] along with the Kingdom of Hawai'i where abortion had once been common.[15][16] Every state had abortion legislation by 1900.[13]

In the United States, abortion itself was sometimes considered a common law offense before specific statutes were made against it.[17] In all states throughout the 19th and early 20th century, pre-quickening abortions were always considered to be actions without a lawful purpose. This meant that if the mother died, the individual performing the abortion was guilty of murder. This aspect of common law regarded pre-quickening abortions as a type of inchoate felony.[18] Negative liberty rights from common law do not apply in situations caused by consensual or voluntary behavior, which allowed for abortions of fetuses conceived in a consensual manner to be common law offences.[19] The majority opinion for Roe v. Wade authored in Justice Harry Blackmun's name would later claim that the criminalization of abortion did not have "roots in the English common-law tradition".[20]


Rose Fosco, who posed as a woman seeking an abortion during sting operations for the Chicago Police Department. As an undercover officer she worked to break up illegal abortion rings.[21]
One purpose for banning abortion was to preserve the life of the fetus,[22] another was to protect the life of the mother, another was to create deterrence against future abortions,[23] and another was avoid injuring the mother's ability to have children. Judges did not always distinguish between which purpose was more important.[24] Rather than arresting the women having the abortions, legal officials were more likely to interrogate them to obtain evidence against the individual doing the abortions.[25] This law enforcement strategy was a response to juries which refused to convict women prosecuted for abortion in the 19th century.[26] In 1973, Justice Harry Blackmun's opinion stated that "the restrictive criminal abortion laws in effect in a majority of States today are of relatively recent vintage".[27]

By 1971, elective abortion on demand was effectively available in Alaska, California, Washington, D.C., Washington state, Hawaii, and New York.[28] Some women traveled to jurisdictions where it was legal, although not all could afford to.[29] In 1971, Shirley Wheeler was charged with manslaughter after Florida hospital staff reported her illegal abortion to the police. Wheeler was one of few women who were prosecuted by their states for abortion.[30] She received a sentence of two years probation and as an option under her probation, chose to move back into her parents' house in North Carolina.[25] The Playboy Foundation donated $3,500 to her defense fund and Playboy magazine denounced her prosecution.[31] The Boston Women's Abortion Coalition raised money and held a rally where attendees listened to speakers from the Women's National Abortion Action Coalition (WONAAC).[32] Her conviction was overturned by the Supreme Court of Florida.
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sumpnz

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #129 on: May 04, 2022, 11:25:35 AM »
A quick check shows that the US median age is 38, so I'm gonna say no.

RvW was 1973.  To remember the way things were before you’d really need to be 60+ years old by now.  And 60 assumes you were paying attention to abortion issues as a pre-teen.  Not many under 70 are really going to fully aware of such issues pre-RvW.

fifth_column

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #130 on: May 04, 2022, 11:57:28 AM »
I found this article online. It has an account from two doctors that worked ERs prior to '73. One of them states in reference to women coming into the ER: "We thought a lot of these were spontaneous abortions — we didn’t realize all of them were induced. The only reason we know that now is that when abortion was legalized, these cases disappeared."

I think it would be best if there were no unwanted pregnancies, and that's where education and birth control can make the difference. I don't know if it's actually possible to achieve zero unwanted pregnancies. I'm enough of an idealist to want it, and enough of a realist to plan for the worst. I'm definitely against abortion as birth control, and "accidental" pregnancy shouldn't be sufficient grounds for abortion. I could see making it available only in cases where the mother's life is at stake, however I think then that there would be a lot of "conveniency abortions" being performed and many women's lives would be lost. Again, a world where women only get pregnant after deliberation and when fully prepared would be best, however I don't see that happening any time soon, or ever.

To say that I'm torn about the abortion issue is a massive understatement.
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MechAg94

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #131 on: May 04, 2022, 12:01:56 PM »
I also wonder if states like Texas/Oklahoma will tell Amazon (and other companies with similar policies) to leave the state.
I don't see why they would.  Ask them to modify their policies?  Maybe.  Policies like that will cover medical issues other than abortion.   

I am sure there will be some effort to prevent recruiting for abortions in ban states, but I am not sure how that will play out.  Anti-abortion groups and Pro-Abortion groups are still there and still have some funding so they will still be pushing the boundaries at least in the short term.

I don't think hard core theocrats have that much power in the R party.  If all this happens as expected, it will be interesting to see how the abortion issue affects US politics going forward.  And/or if other social issues move to the front.  I guess there are people who like to stir up divisive issues so if this doesn't do it, something else will come up. 
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MechAg94

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #132 on: May 04, 2022, 12:11:01 PM »
I found this article online. It has an account from two doctors that worked ERs prior to '73. One of them states in reference to women coming into the ER: "We thought a lot of these were spontaneous abortions — we didn’t realize all of them were induced. The only reason we know that now is that when abortion was legalized, these cases disappeared."

I think it would be best if there were no unwanted pregnancies, and that's where education and birth control can make the difference. I don't know if it's actually possible to achieve zero unwanted pregnancies. I'm enough of an idealist to want it, and enough of a realist to plan for the worst. I'm definitely against abortion as birth control, and "accidental" pregnancy shouldn't be sufficient grounds for abortion. I could see making it available only in cases where the mother's life is at stake, however I think then that there would be a lot of "conveniency abortions" being performed and many women's lives would be lost. Again, a world where women only get pregnant after deliberation and when fully prepared would be best, however I don't see that happening any time soon, or ever.

To say that I'm torn about the abortion issue is a massive understatement.
That article is pure propaganda.  They give no numbers/statistics, just a bunch of anecdotal horror stories that make you think millions of women were dying all over the country.  And it really ought to be compared to birth/pregnancy complications as a check. 

I heard some people talking about number yesterday.  I don't remember anything all that high.  And the number of abortion complications was not zero afterward.  I will have to see what I can find for links.
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lee n. field

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #133 on: May 04, 2022, 12:13:13 PM »
I was pretty young, definitely too young to worry about getting anyone pregnant when R v W passed. What was it like?

A patchwork of different state laws.  A uterus equipped birthing person (set aside the irony for the moment) desiring an abortion might need to travel to a different state to get it done.  There were a couple girls in my HS class, that that was the rumor about.  Can't have a nice girl from a nice family coming up preggers.

Lots of "allowed with limitations", like not after 3 months.  And not always the places one would expect given the political landscape now.
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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #134 on: May 04, 2022, 01:12:52 PM »
T.O.M. called it.  The Left will be calling for packing the court over the summer.
...

Right. Possibly because of my personal isolation from the issue, I see that as the biggest problem with the alleged "decision."

"They're" pretty much in a position to do whatever they want --including changing voting and districting rules to be in "their" favor, locally, as well.

Power aggrandizes.

The Fix is in.

I'm even getting tired of saying that myself.

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K Frame

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #135 on: May 04, 2022, 01:19:13 PM »
"
"They're" pretty much in a position to do whatever they want --including changing voting and districting rules to be in "their" favor, locally, as well."

Yeah, because the Republicans would NEVER EVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES PROMISE WITH A PINKY SWEAR do that...

Sigh.
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sumpnz

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #136 on: May 04, 2022, 01:21:16 PM »
For something that is not an enumerated right (like RKBA) I really don’t get why people get so worked up over States getting to decide if/how to regulate something.  I mean, I get it in that control freaks will control freak (and this goes for both sides - if I had to pick one extreme I’d go with abortion being illegal everywhere, but I’m quite happy with RvW simply being struck down), but for a substantial majority this shouldn’t be even a little controversial.

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #137 on: May 04, 2022, 01:29:46 PM »
"
"They're" pretty much in a position to do whatever they want --including changing voting and districting rules to be in "their" favor, locally, as well."

Yeah, because the Republicans would NEVER EVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES PROMISE WITH A PINKY SWEAR do that...

Sigh.

Oh, come now.  You must agree that they've maneuvered themselves into an almost iron clad position with respect to having their cake and eating it, too.

If not, there's no point in discussing that further.  Have a Twinky.  Sometimes you overdo yourself, Terry said, without using all caps and without checking his A1C.

:rofl:

Take it to PMs, K Frame.

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Perd Hapley

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #138 on: May 04, 2022, 01:47:56 PM »
I could see myself being able to compromise on the abortion issue a bit in a sane world, but seeing some of these radicals being willing to go right over the line to infanticide makes me say no.  Can't compromise with that.  Yes, they are just radicals, but they are the ones who keep pushing and demand more compromises just like other issues.  It honestly makes me wonder what they do or want that I don't know about.  I hate to go down that rabbit hole.

The only reasonable, humane compromise is the same one we make for self-defense. You can legally kill a fellow human in self-defense, but you had better be prepared to show that your actions were necessary, to prevent death or serious injury. The difference in the case of abortion is that it can be decided by professionals beforehand, instead of something that has to be adjudicated after the fact.

Yes, that means women would be told what they can do with their own bodies. The horror...
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K Frame

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #139 on: May 04, 2022, 01:48:30 PM »
You're turning into quite the Howler Monkey of Doom lately... and I'm not exactly sure why.

""They're" pretty much in a position to do whatever they want --including changing voting and districting rules to be in "their" favor, locally, as well."

This statement falls apart when viewed with even a marginally critical eye. Hell, even when viewed with an eye with a pointy stick in it.

If "They" were truly the unstoppable juggernaut of liberalism you seem to think they are, why have we been hearing constant howls about how Uncle Joe's Glorious Agenda for a More Liberal America has been so totally trashed?

If "they" were truly the unstoppable juggernaut of liberalism you seem to think they are, why are the Democrats weeping bitter tears of defeat over the Senate Filibuster?

If (ditto ditto ditto), how the hell did the Dems comprehensively lose Virginia?

If (ditto ditto ditto), how did Republicans claw their way back to very close to a tie in the House of Representatives?

So, despite pretty comprehensive failures across the board the last year by the Democratic party, despite the growing unrest nation wide, despite poll after poll showing that the Dems are in serious trouble, it all comes down to one thing -- massive Democratic take over in November  -- House Democrats 435, House Republicans 0, Senate Democrats 100, Senate Republicans 0, Democratic Governors 50, Republican Governors 0, and so forth an so on.

OK.

I guess we're *expletive deleted*ed then.
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RocketMan

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #140 on: May 04, 2022, 02:14:00 PM »
If "They" were truly the unstoppable juggernaut of liberalism you seem to think they are, why have we been hearing constant howls about how Uncle Joe's Glorious Agenda for a More Liberal America has been so totally trashed?

If "they" were truly the unstoppable juggernaut of liberalism you seem to think they are, why are the Democrats weeping bitter tears of defeat over the Senate Filibuster?

These two items failed only because two Democrat senators did not agree with the means to attain them.  Either of these two senators could be coerced into changing their minds at any time.  It will take only one to change their mind for the Dems to attain their goals.
That's a mighty slim margin for Republicans to hang their hopes on.
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MechAg94

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #141 on: May 04, 2022, 03:10:32 PM »
These two items failed only because two Democrat senators did not agree with the means to attain them.  Either of these two senators could be coerced into changing their minds at any time.  It will take only one to change their mind for the Dems to attain their goals.
That's a mighty slim margin for Republicans to hang their hopes on.
IMO, The democrat party is just as stupid as many here say the republican party is.  They get a majority then get the big head and screw up.  There was probably a way to do a good portion of what they wanted, but they refused to compromise even with their own party or worried about something they couldn't control.  Both parties contain a bunch of stupid politicians.  A few are smart people, but most are not (IMAO).

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MillCreek

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #142 on: May 04, 2022, 03:45:51 PM »
IMO, The democrat party is just as stupid as many here say the republican party is.  They get a majority then get the big head and screw up.  There was probably a way to do a good portion of what they wanted, but they refused to compromise even with their own party or worried about something they couldn't control.  Both parties contain a bunch of stupid politicians.  A few are smart people, but most are not (IMAO).

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Ben

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #143 on: May 04, 2022, 04:35:05 PM »
If you're of the opinion that this is not just some lone clerk, but part of a far left strategy (personally, I think it's one or the other, but don't know which) then John Hayward has some interesting thoughts:

https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/05/04/john-hayward-takes-comprehensive-and-extremely-valuable-look-at-dems-big-mistake-in-going-all-in-on-pro-abort-thuggery/

I thought the below to be cogent. It's what dems don't get. People everywhere, including moderate dems, are sick of the far left loony protestors that the dems call out for all this stuff. They destroy their own message with the purple haired weirdos who physically attack people for an opposing view (plenty of videos of that stuff going around right now).

Quote
There's nothing about the post-Roe landscape that the majority of Americans finds particularly troubling. The Left's screaming freakout will alienate far more voters than it persuades. Dems needed to keep their kooks hidden, but instead they're putting on a circus. Big mistake.

The thuggery on display from Democrats right now is DEEPLY alienating to most Americans. They don't want to see imperious Dems shrieking about packing the Court and shredding the Constitution, or thugs menacing the families of Supreme Court justices.

It can be grey haired weirdoes as well. Elizabeth Warren is in rare form dementia-wise today.

https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2022/05/04/watch-elizabeth-warren-goes-full-stompy-foot-through-the-plants-after-screaming-at-people-about-abortion/
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K Frame

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #144 on: May 04, 2022, 04:44:33 PM »
These two items failed only because two Democrat senators did not agree with the means to attain them.  Either of these two senators could be coerced into changing their minds at any time.  It will take only one to change their mind for the Dems to attain their goals.
That's a mighty slim margin for Republicans to hang their hopes on.


OMG! PANIC! HORRIBLE ALMOST IDEALIZATION OF DOOM! WE MIGHT BE SCREWED! MIGHT BE GAME OVER, MAN! MIGHT BE GAME OVER!

Ok, Hudson, calm the hell down...

Seen any movement by the Democrats to do that?

Any reason to push the panic button?

Any reason to think that either senator who was adamantly opposed to either measure has changed his/her position on either matter when the states that they represent are trending harder and harder Republican, making them vulnerable in coming elections?

Even if one or both were to have a come to Jeebus experience on the filibuster and give the Democrats what, 6 months of filibusterless leverage, think the Republicans, on retaking the Senate, which they appear poised to do in November, would let that stand?

Oh, I forgot, in November it will be House Democrats 435, Republicans 0, Senate Democrats 100, Senate Republicans 0, and so forth and so on because of the massive Democratic rewriting of blah blah blah blah whatever howler monkey of doom scenario came to someone in their fever dreams.

OK.

And level with me, why are you all panicking about this stuff when PUTIN COULD NUKE US BACK INTO THE STONE AGE TOMORROW AND INVADE ON FRIDAY???? HOLY HELL, MAN! HOLY HELL!


 :angel: (I know that's supposed to be an angel, but it looks more to me like a panic monkey with a pancake on its head...)
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K Frame

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #145 on: May 04, 2022, 04:45:29 PM »
"The Left's screaming freakout will alienate far more voters than it persuades."

Ding. Ding. Ding.

Winner winner chicken dinner.
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Ben

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #146 on: May 04, 2022, 05:45:26 PM »
Whatever side of this conversation you're on, you have to admit that this is hilarious:

Quote
Gavin Newsom
@GavinNewsom
If men could get pregnant, this wouldn’t even be a conversation.

This must be one of the fastest lefty talking point turnarounds ever. Just a few days ago you were a monster if you said men can't get pregnant. I wonder what is going to happen to that new "pregnant man" emoji Apple or whoever the *expletive deleted*ck just added to their software?
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/05/04/transphobic-california-gov-gavin-newsom-suggests-that-men-cant-get-pregnant/
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WLJ

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #147 on: May 04, 2022, 05:53:25 PM »
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
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Ben

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #149 on: May 04, 2022, 06:07:20 PM »

OMG! PANIC! HORRIBLE ALMOST IDEALIZATION OF DOOM! WE MIGHT BE SCREWED! MIGHT BE GAME OVER, MAN! MIGHT BE GAME OVER!

Ok, Hudson, calm the hell down...

Seen any movement by the Democrats to do that?

Any reason to push the panic button?

Any reason to think that either senator who was adamantly opposed to either measure has changed his/her position on either matter when the states that they represent are trending harder and harder Republican, making them vulnerable in coming elections?

Even if one or both were to have a come to Jeebus experience on the filibuster and give the Democrats what, 6 months of filibusterless leverage, think the Republicans, on retaking the Senate, which they appear poised to do in November, would let that stand?

Oh, I forgot, in November it will be House Democrats 435, Republicans 0, Senate Democrats 100, Senate Republicans 0, and so forth and so on because of the massive Democratic rewriting of blah blah blah blah whatever howler monkey of doom scenario came to someone in their fever dreams.

OK.

And level with me, why are you all panicking about this stuff when PUTIN COULD NUKE US BACK INTO THE STONE AGE TOMORROW AND INVADE ON FRIDAY???? HOLY HELL, MAN! HOLY HELL!


 :angel: (I know that's supposed to be an angel, but it looks more to me like a panic monkey with a pancake on its head...)

What in the heck gave you the idea I am in panic mode?  I gave a perfectly reasonable explanation about why the Republicans need to be wary.  They are indeed hanging their hopes on a very slim thread.

Incidentally, are you related to this guy by chance?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdbpmeUODME
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.