Author Topic: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade  (Read 33008 times)

MechAg94

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #150 on: May 04, 2022, 07:42:19 PM »
What in the heck gave you the idea I am in panic mode?  I gave a perfectly reasonable explanation about why the Republicans need to be wary.  They are indeed hanging their hopes on a very slim thread.

Incidentally, are you related to this guy by chance?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdbpmeUODME
So far, all the things Democrats are doing that push voters back to the R side they are still doing and doubling down.  So far, I don't see Republicans taking it for granted, but we still have some months to go. 

“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

MechAg94

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #151 on: May 04, 2022, 07:45:19 PM »
New Poll Shows Surprisingly Sizable Majority Of Unborn Babies Favor Overturning Roe
https://babylonbee.com/news/new-poll-shows-surprisingly-sizable-majority-of-fetuses-favor-overturning-roe



Quote
U.S.—A CNN poll has revealed a surprisingly sizable majority of unborn babies are in favor of overturning the infamous Roe v. Wade decision. The fetuses allegedly frown upon abortions for interfering with their ability to be alive.

 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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MechAg94

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #152 on: May 04, 2022, 08:00:16 PM »

It can be grey haired weirdoes as well. Elizabeth Warren is in rare form dementia-wise today.

https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2022/05/04/watch-elizabeth-warren-goes-full-stompy-foot-through-the-plants-after-screaming-at-people-about-abortion/
Note the tweet included near the middle where D-Swalwell dumps on Susan Sarandon who is criticizing Democrats.  That is something I didn't expect to see. 
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T.O.M.

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #153 on: May 04, 2022, 08:03:50 PM »
I'm a bit concerned IF the leaked ruling is legit and ends up as the majority holding.  My concern is that the opinion seems to attack the 1963 Giddeon decision which created the "privacy" basis upon which the Roe ruling was based.  If they indicate that there is no Constitional right to privacy in one's own home, what impact will this have on the expectations of privacy with respect to 4th Amendment search and seizure.  Much of the law on the 4th Amendment is based upon a person's expectations of privacy from the State in their own home.  If SCOTUS holds that there is no "privacy" rights in COTUS, how might 4A be impacted?

Oh, and as an aside, I heard a lawyer at court today talking.  He's an extreme fundamentalist Christian.  He indicated that there is a right-wing push to seek to make contraceptives illegal.  Anyone know about this, or was he spouting his own extreme beliefs as if they were an actual party issue?
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dogmush

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #154 on: May 04, 2022, 08:16:15 PM »
I've seen far left weirdos say the far right will ban contraception  (and interracial  marriage?!?) next, but I've not heard it from a righty.

That said I do not interact with many fringe Christians.

MechAg94

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #155 on: May 04, 2022, 08:19:01 PM »
I'm a bit concerned IF the leaked ruling is legit and ends up as the majority holding.  My concern is that the opinion seems to attack the 1963 Giddeon decision which created the "privacy" basis upon which the Roe ruling was based.  If they indicate that there is no Constitional right to privacy in one's own home, what impact will this have on the expectations of privacy with respect to 4th Amendment search and seizure.  Much of the law on the 4th Amendment is based upon a person's expectations of privacy from the State in their own home.  If SCOTUS holds that there is no "privacy" rights in COTUS, how might 4A be impacted?

Oh, and as an aside, I heard a lawyer at court today talking.  He's an extreme fundamentalist Christian.  He indicated that there is a right-wing push to seek to make contraceptives illegal.  Anyone know about this, or was he spouting his own extreme beliefs as if they were an actual party issue?
Don't know about the 4th Amendment part.  I haven't read the draft opinion.

I have never heard of anyone talking about making contraception illegal aside from Democrats accusing Republicans.  The closest issues I can think of are 1) the abortion pill, and 2) not wanting to pay for free contraceptives. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

MechAg94

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #156 on: May 04, 2022, 08:26:55 PM »
I was trying to find links on numbers of deaths from illegal abortions before Roe vs Wade. 

https://www.liveaction.org/news/women-died-illegal-abortion-roe/
Not sure who runs this site, but I am sure it has its bias.  Has a lot of links.  Seems to indicate that most illegal abortions were done by doctors and deaths happened but were pretty low for the most part.  I guess that assumes cause of death was recorded correctly.  We don't know how many illegal abortions were done so can't do much statistical analysis with that.

https://medium.com/the-pro-life-rose/fact-check-did-thousands-of-women-die-of-illegal-abortions-before-roe-vs-wade-73f3a38da62f
Same for this site.  Seems to show deaths were lower, but were never that high. 
Quote
    1959: less than 300 deaths (Source: Guttmacher Institute)
    1964: 264 deaths (Source: Department of Health Education and Welfare)
    1964: 267 deaths (Source: Statistician Dr. Christopher Tietze)
    1965: just under 200 deaths (Source: Guttmacher Institute)
    1965: 193 deaths (Source: Planned Parenthood)
    1966: 189 deaths (Source: National Center for Health Statistics, reported by CDC)
    1972: 39 deaths (Source: Centers for Disease Control CDC)
    1973: 19 deaths (Source: Centers for Disease Control CDC)

I thought Steven Crowder said 1500 yesterday, but I may not be remembering correctly.  Still nothing to panic over.  I guess we will see what other information pops up.
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WLJ

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #157 on: May 04, 2022, 08:30:17 PM »
I was trying to find links on numbers of deaths from illegal abortions before Roe vs Wade. 

https://www.liveaction.org/news/women-died-illegal-abortion-roe/
Not sure who runs this site, but I am sure it has its bias.  Has a lot of links.  Seems to indicate that most illegal abortions were done by doctors and deaths happened but were pretty low for the most part.  I guess that assumes cause of death was recorded correctly.  We don't know how many illegal abortions were done so can't do much statistical analysis with that.

https://medium.com/the-pro-life-rose/fact-check-did-thousands-of-women-die-of-illegal-abortions-before-roe-vs-wade-73f3a38da62f
Same for this site.  Seems to show deaths were lower, but were never that high. 
I thought Steven Crowder said 1500 yesterday, but I may not be remembering correctly.  Still nothing to panic over.  I guess we will see what other information pops up.

What are the numbers today for non-clinic performed abortions? I doubt back room abortions have completely gone away
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MechAg94

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #158 on: May 04, 2022, 09:25:22 PM »
I'm a bit concerned IF the leaked ruling is legit and ends up as the majority holding.  My concern is that the opinion seems to attack the 1963 Giddeon decision which created the "privacy" basis upon which the Roe ruling was based.  If they indicate that there is no Constitional right to privacy in one's own home, what impact will this have on the expectations of privacy with respect to 4th Amendment search and seizure.  Much of the law on the 4th Amendment is based upon a person's expectations of privacy from the State in their own home.  If SCOTUS holds that there is no "privacy" rights in COTUS, how might 4A be impacted?

Oh, and as an aside, I heard a lawyer at court today talking.  He's an extreme fundamentalist Christian.  He indicated that there is a right-wing push to seek to make contraceptives illegal.  Anyone know about this, or was he spouting his own extreme beliefs as if they were an actual party issue?
Crowder did mention the privacy issue, but he didn't give a legal answer.  Just pretty much said it was another scare tactic over this issue.  I think he is right about that. It isn't as if the Federal Govt respects any right to privacy these days.  Even the courts generally give the Govt a lot of leeway even when their actions are explicitly illegal. 
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #159 on: May 04, 2022, 11:28:11 PM »
Oh, and as an aside, I heard a lawyer at court today talking.  He's an extreme fundamentalist Christian.  He indicated that there is a right-wing push to seek to make contraceptives illegal.  Anyone know about this, or was he spouting his own extreme beliefs as if they were an actual party issue?

I think there are some religious conservatives (and maybe some secular conservatives) that don't realize how vanishingly few people, even in politically and socially conservative circles, share their particular views of certain issues. As an example, I've encountered people who seem to think re-establishing teacher-led prayer in public school classrooms is still high up on the conservative Republican agenda. Not because they're afraid it's true - they're in favor of it. I'm guessing your man there is one of those types.

The only people that would even want to do that are fundie Catholics, and an even smaller fringe of fundie Protestant/evangelicals. I've heard that anti-birth-control doctrine used to be a common teaching across most Christian denominations, but it certainly has not been for some time (in the U.S.). Even if U.S. Christians return to that position, it would be a huge leap to assume they'd want a legal ban.


Quote
I'm a bit concerned IF the leaked ruling is legit and ends up as the majority holding.  My concern is that the opinion seems to attack the 1963 Giddeon decision which created the "privacy" basis upon which the Roe ruling was based.  If they indicate that there is no Constitional right to privacy in one's own home, what impact will this have on the expectations of privacy with respect to 4th Amendment search and seizure.  Much of the law on the 4th Amendment is based upon a person's expectations of privacy from the State in their own home.  If SCOTUS holds that there is no "privacy" rights in COTUS, how might 4A be impacted?

Does it really seem reasonable to believe the 4th amendment, which has been with us for over two hundred years, is a dead letter, unless women can get abortions?  For most of that time, abortion was illegal under at least some states' laws. Doesn't it seem really bizarre to suggest that the Bill of Rights offers us no protection from intrusive law enforcement practices, unless it also protects a controversial medical procedure?

Pretty sure someone's trying to smuggle in some pro-abortion propaganda on you.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2022, 11:42:01 PM by Perd Hapley »
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sumpnz

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #160 on: May 05, 2022, 12:20:49 AM »
I don’t know any Protestant Christians that oppose birth control.

I mean, Monty Python had a point (couldn’t find both clips in a single clip).
https://youtu.be/bzVHjg3AqIQ
https://youtu.be/PDBjsFAyiwA

zxcvbob

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #161 on: May 05, 2022, 12:48:02 AM »
I don’t know any Protestant Christians that oppose birth control.

I mean, Monty Python had a point (couldn’t find both clips in a single clip).
https://youtu.be/bzVHjg3AqIQ
https://youtu.be/PDBjsFAyiwA

Some of us oppose one or two very specific means of birth control that amount to early abortions.  I don't know of any who oppose birth control per se, but if you turn over enough rocks you might find some.  I think the commandment to "Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it" has been fulfilled already.  (A real pandemic or a nuclear war or even just a global loss of interest in natural sex could make it relevant again.)
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Ben

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #162 on: May 05, 2022, 08:00:44 AM »
Hey, I just wanted to give props to all the members participating in this thread. It's seven pages mostly on abortion, and everyone has been polite and thoughtful in their debate of this contentious topic. I don't think we have ever gone anywhere near this long without such a thread being locked. Kudos to all of you!  =)
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lee n. field

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #163 on: May 05, 2022, 08:21:26 AM »
Oh, and as an aside, I heard a lawyer at court today talking.  He's an extreme fundamentalist Christian.  He indicated that there is a right-wing push to seek to make contraceptives illegal.  Anyone know about this, or was he spouting his own extreme beliefs as if they were an actual party issue?

I have never heard of anything like this, in current times.
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K Frame

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #164 on: May 05, 2022, 08:33:41 AM »
There's some disagreement in the various protestant groups about birth control.

Old Order Amish forbid it, although that apparently is starting to break down on an individual basis. Hutterites also believe it to be a sin, but again, that's breaking down and they're OK with it if it's recommended by a medical doctor, apparently.

At least one branch of the Luthern Church has proclaimed birth control to be a sin.

We Methodists are pretty much "it's between you and God."

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Pb

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #165 on: May 05, 2022, 09:16:56 AM »
Opposition to birth control used to be common among protestant churches.  It is not common any more.  I have never heard of serious movement to ban birth control in modern times.  In the earlier 20th century, some of the anti-birth control laws were aimed at keeping unmarried people from buying it, not married couples.  The thought was that it would encourage promiscuity.  Some research indicates they were actually right.

K Frame

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #166 on: May 05, 2022, 09:33:14 AM »
This seems to be an appropriate add in at this point...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzVHjg3AqIQ
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MechAg94

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #167 on: May 05, 2022, 09:44:06 AM »
Opposition to birth control used to be common among protestant churches.  It is not common any more.  I have never heard of serious movement to ban birth control in modern times.  In the earlier 20th century, some of the anti-birth control laws were aimed at keeping unmarried people from buying it, not married couples.  The thought was that it would encourage promiscuity.  Some research indicates they were actually right.
That went along with blue laws and other stuff done to limit or outlaw things considered sinful.  I thought general support for that stuff in my state ended in the 1980's and a lot of the state wide limits were removed.  Some stuff still hangs around mostly related to limits on alcohol sales.  I have never heard of any serious support for bringing that stuff back. 

And I would point out that it was Democrats who enacted a lot of that.  Many of those people never stopped voting Democrat in local elections.  There have been a lot of generational shifts in the South. 
« Last Edit: May 05, 2022, 10:42:21 AM by MechAg94 »
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Jim147

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #168 on: May 05, 2022, 09:51:23 AM »
In recent years, the republicans have tried to get birth control OTC but the dem's keep fighting it.
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charby

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #169 on: May 05, 2022, 10:01:00 AM »
This seems to be an appropriate add in at this point...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzVHjg3AqIQ

I was just getting ready to post that.  =D
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charby

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sumpnz

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #171 on: May 05, 2022, 12:46:48 PM »
This seems to be an appropriate add in at this point...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzVHjg3AqIQ

That was the first of my YouTube links.  The second was the “protestant” response scene that followed.

sumpnz

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #172 on: May 05, 2022, 12:48:52 PM »
Some of us oppose one or two very specific means of birth control that amount to early abortions.  I don't know of any who oppose birth control per se, but if you turn over enough rocks you might find some.  I think the commandment to "Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it" has been fulfilled already.  (A real pandemic or a nuclear war or even just a global loss of interest in natural sex could make it relevant again.)

I meant birth control “per se”.  For general support for that, just look at the birth rate for Protestant/evangelical pastor’s families.  Pretty well reflects general birth rate trends for 1-3 kids.

Pb

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #173 on: May 05, 2022, 12:49:44 PM »
I will say that I believe the birth rate among married people in the USA (and the western world in general) is way too low.  We should be having enough kids to slowly grow our population without immigration.

And unmarried people should have zero kids.

dogmush

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #174 on: May 05, 2022, 12:57:27 PM »
Everyone obviously wants to see more people that think like them, and less that think like enemies, but as a species we could probably shrink a bit and be quite fine.