Author Topic: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade  (Read 33011 times)

WLJ

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zxcvbob

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #501 on: June 27, 2022, 06:37:40 PM »
I was listening to NPR in my truck today and of course they were talking about abortion.  One thing they mentioned was conservatives now want the Supreme Court to outlaw abortion.  They were talking to a young woman who is against abortion and kinda implied that she was a freak or something because abortion is a sacrament.  (they didn't say that outloud)

A national ban would be a nice outcome, but wasn't the whole point of the recent decision that Roe v. Wade violated the 10th Amendment?  The Constitution is silent on the issue, therefore it belongs to the states (or the people.)  It would be dishonest for the court to take up the issue again.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #502 on: June 27, 2022, 06:46:38 PM »
And another
https://twitter.com/s00nd/status/1540510373845110784

Quote
"Amanda Herring, who is 32 and *nine months pregnant*, showed up with her 1-year-old son Abraham and the words "Not Yet a Human" written in ink across her swollen belly. Herring, a Jewish educator who said *her due date is Saturday*"



Hardly surprising. The traditional Jewish belief is that [human] life begins with the first breath.
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
100% Politically Incorrect by Design

cordex

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #503 on: June 28, 2022, 08:43:04 AM »
Oops.


;/  I watched the video.  She clearly stumbled over her words and was obviously not trying to say "white life".  News flash: Obama didn't really think there were 57 states either. 

I suspect the number of pro-choice people who hold that opinion is a small segment that is not indicative of the beliefs of pro-choice people as a whole.  Probably much like the number of 2nd Amendment supporters who interpret it as including the right to own nuclear weapons.  As with so many things, the ability of such people to gain attention to their beliefs is greater than their actual numbers, in these social media days.
This statement has been bugging me the past few days, and I don't think it is in any way defensible. 

First off, I understand that you were looking at the populace as a whole and not specific parties, but let's use political parties and their surveys and focus groups to pressure test your assertion.

I have never heard any major politician or candidate support the 2A as covering nuclear weapons.  I'm not even sure the modern Libertarian candidates would hold to that.  On the other hand, just about all national-level Democrat politicians when asked their position on late term abortion either deflect or basically say: "Whatever the mother wants".

Looking back at the 2020 Democratic candidates opinions on late term abortion, I couldn't find any that would say that they oppose it today.  Some of the older candidates have a history of anti-abortion positions, but all had evolved to the point that as of 2020 none were fundamentally opposed late term abortion.  A few try to deflect (as you do) and say that it isn't a thing and shut up we don't need to worry about it, but most just said that it should be up to the mother.  If anything, support for unlimited abortion is a shibboleth for modern Democrats, whereas it isn't even hard to find Republicans who support assault weapons bans.  It is unthinkable to find a major politician supporting private ownership of nuclear weapons.

Whatever the overall perspective of people who have any pro-abortion views, it would appear that Democrats believe that there are enough people in their party who support late term abortions that they cannot oppose it.  In contrast, I couldn't find any national-level politician or major candidate that supports private ownership of nuclear weapons.  I think a more honest comparison would be the number of pro-abortionists who believe in late term abortion to the number of people who believe that you should be able to own some sort of gun who also believe the second amendment covers "assault weapons".

WLJ

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #504 on: June 28, 2022, 08:45:50 AM »
News flash: Obama didn't really think there were 57 states either. 


He meant genders.
The number has gone up somewhat since
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MillCreek

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #505 on: June 28, 2022, 09:05:32 AM »
Cordex, ponder how the fallacy of hasty generalization/fallacy of composition applies to my original statement, not your expansion to political parties and their platforms.
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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

cordex

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #506 on: June 28, 2022, 09:34:20 AM »
Cordex, ponder how the fallacy of hasty generalization/fallacy of composition applies to my original statement, not your expansion to political parties and their platforms.
My understanding of what you were saying is as follows:
1. Anyone who believes that any abortion is okay is somewhat pro-abortion
2. There are a lot of people who meet the definition above.
3. Among that very large group, the number of people who support late-term abortion is so small as to be comparable to the number of 2A supporters who believe that nuclear weapons are covered by the 2A.

Have I understood you correctly?

Ben

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WLJ

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #508 on: June 28, 2022, 10:24:03 AM »
Pocahontas wants abortion tents set up  in National Parks.

https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/06/28/heap-big-crazy-elizabeth-warren-pushes-biden-to-set-up-planned-parenthood-outposts-tents-on-edges-of-national-parks/

I thought National Parks were racist?

Is it me or has she been extra crazy since they removed her image from the butter box?
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WLJ

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #509 on: June 28, 2022, 10:27:08 AM »
Speaking of crazy

Quote
    It shouldn't be harder to obtain an abortion than an AR-15.

    — Hillary Clinton (@HillaryClinton) June 27, 2022

Hillary Clinton goes off the rails on not-so-thinly veiled racist rant about ‘person of grievance’ Clarence Thomas [video]
https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/06/28/hillary-clinton-goes-off-the-rails-on-not-so-thinly-veiled-racist-rant-about-person-of-grievance-clarence-thomas-video/
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Ben

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #510 on: June 28, 2022, 10:30:12 AM »
Speaking of crazy

Hillary Clinton goes off the rails on not-so-thinly veiled racist rant about ‘person of grievance’ Clarence Thomas [video]
https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/06/28/hillary-clinton-goes-off-the-rails-on-not-so-thinly-veiled-racist-rant-about-person-of-grievance-clarence-thomas-video/

Uppity black man!

As the comments suggested, she is one totally self-unaware nutjob.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

MillCreek

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #511 on: June 28, 2022, 10:46:44 AM »
My understanding of what you were saying is as follows:
1. Anyone who believes that any abortion is okay is somewhat pro-abortion
2. There are a lot of people who meet the definition above.
3. Among that very large group, the number of people who support late-term abortion is so small as to be comparable to the number of 2A supporters who believe that nuclear weapons are covered by the 2A.

Have I understood you correctly?

No, you have not.  I have an issue with those who conflate all late term abortions (21 weeks or more) being the same as abortions at the time of birth (40 weeks gestational age).  I realize that to many people, they are all one and the same philosophically, but there is a difference from the healthcare perspective.  Also, I, and probably the majority of American citizens do not believe 'any abortion is OK' as a black and white statement.

See also: https://www.sacurrent.com/news/bad-takes-the-rabid-right-believes-the-second-amendment-has-no-limits-not-even-nukes-27777351

https://www.newsweek.com/candidate-running-primary-elise-stefanik-says-people-should-able-own-nuke-1606617

https://www.change.org/p/president-of-the-united-states-legalize-recreational-nuclear-weapons-0e0861b0-bfdc-480c-887e-195e1a20b365

From the above, should we generalize that all Second Amendment supporters are in favor of the right to bear nuclear arms?  What part of 'shall not be infringed' is unclear?
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MillCreek
Snohomish County, WA  USA


Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

WLJ

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #512 on: June 28, 2022, 10:48:56 AM »
No one needs more than 10 nukes
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MillCreek

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #513 on: June 28, 2022, 10:53:35 AM »
No one needs more than 10 nukes

Or a MIRV.
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MillCreek
Snohomish County, WA  USA


Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

Strings

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #514 on: June 28, 2022, 11:13:12 AM »
I've always held (and argued on here) that abortion should be allowed in limited scope (rape/incest, massive detected defect in the child, VERY limited "birth control failed"). All of these can be addressed in the early stages of pregnancy (or the morning after pill).

I talk with many on the left: support for late-term abortion is incredibly small, and rabidly vocal. Very similar to the trans bathroom issue years ago: most of the (at the time, tiny) trans community weren't the ones raising hell about it
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Boomhauer

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #515 on: June 28, 2022, 11:58:10 AM »
I've always held (and argued on here) that abortion should be allowed in limited scope (rape/incest, massive detected defect in the child, VERY limited "birth control failed"). All of these can be addressed in the early stages of pregnancy (or the morning after pill).

I talk with many on the left: support for late-term abortion is incredibly small, and rabidly vocal. Very similar to the trans bathroom issue years ago: most of the (at the time, tiny) trans community weren't the ones raising hell about it

That very vocal minority and the Planned Parenthood baby chop shop stuff is the very reason this thread exists.

Push abhorrent ideas and you’re eventually going to get some serious pushback from the people who are tired of being run over.

The “in your face” and “we’re gonna groom and *expletive deleted*ck up  your kids” crowd of the trannies/drag queens/allies should take notice
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RocketMan

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #516 on: June 28, 2022, 12:13:38 PM »
Or a MIRV.

Or more than a 50 kiloton yield per weapon.
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #517 on: June 28, 2022, 12:27:08 PM »
There are two major sides to this issue. Both side each have their spectrum of belief. And, the key element is the question of "When does life begin. when does a living being become vested in human rights?"
One side runs from life begins at conception to life begins at some nebulous point with numerous key points with a degree of variability across the board and that killing the unborn is murder which is evil
The other side runs from "it is just an inconvenient mass of cells" until it is born to even after it's born we can still have a discussion about aborting it after delivery with a degree of variability across the board and it's just a matter of women's healthcare and nobody else's business.
Each side has their opinion, whether based in their faith or their understanding of science. The only real arbitor is going to be whatever creator there may or may not be.

I doubt more than a tiny fraction on either side will be changing their minds during this debate. Personally I'd like to see this thread and the other on the topic closed since we have all pretty well aired our positions and continued name calling and insults do not serve this forum well.
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Angel Eyes

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #518 on: June 28, 2022, 12:31:29 PM »
Abortion billboards appearing in California, possibly funded with taxpayer money:

https://www.kusi.com/are-taxpayer-dollars-funding-pro-abortion-billboards-in-california/

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MillCreek

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #519 on: June 28, 2022, 12:34:21 PM »
That very vocal minority and the Planned Parenthood baby chop shop stuff is the very reason this thread exists.

Because of the extrapolation here that if you do not oppose all abortions under all circumstances, you are a supporter of abortion on demand at the time of birth and baby chop shops.  There is no middle ground.
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MillCreek
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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

cordex

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #520 on: June 28, 2022, 12:49:11 PM »
No, you have not.  I have an issue with those who conflate all late term abortions (21 weeks or more) being the same as abortions at the time of birth (40 weeks gestational age).  I realize that to many people, they are all one and the same philosophically, but there is a difference from the healthcare perspective.
Ah.  From the healthcare perspective, then, what limit would you prefer be placed on abortions?  Of course I expect that you distinguish between elective and medically necessary, as well as make distinctions between physical and mental health justifications.

Also, I, and probably the majority of American citizens do not believe 'any abortion is OK' as a black and white statement.
Just to be clear, in point #1 I was trying to convey that anyone who believes that abortion should be allowed under particular circumstances might be considered pro-abortion.  I thought you had (correctly) stated in one of these threads that most Americans are pro-abortion to some extent under some circumstances, and was simply trying to reiterate that point, not make some jab about the majority being okay with all abortion.  I apologize if I failed to properly communicate that.

See also: https://www.sacurrent.com/news/bad-takes-the-rabid-right-believes-the-second-amendment-has-no-limits-not-even-nukes-27777351

https://www.newsweek.com/candidate-running-primary-elise-stefanik-says-people-should-able-own-nuke-1606617

https://www.change.org/p/president-of-the-united-states-legalize-recreational-nuclear-weapons-0e0861b0-bfdc-480c-887e-195e1a20b365
Thanks for that.  Okay, you have certainly found a couple of politicians who do support ownership of private nuclear weapons - one who was a former vice chair of the Republican Party of Texas but as far as I can tell has never actually served in office, and the other a member of the House of Representatives who also calls the idea crazy. 

Oh, and a failed change.org petition that is likely with less than 300 signatures and also reads like a joke.

I concede that such politicians exist, although if that was the best you could find they are clearly rarer than hen's teeth.

From the above, should we generalize that all Second Amendment supporters are in favor of the right to bear nuclear arms?  What part of 'shall not be infringed' is unclear?
First of all, let me be clear that I agree that  most people who are pro-abortion (including those who have had or are involved in performing abortions) do not like the idea of late term abortion, full-term abortion, partial birth abortion, or anything like that.  However, your allegation that people who are in support of abortion up to the point of birth are equal in number or percentage or whatever comparison you want to those who support private ownership of nuclear weapons is still preposterous.

Couldn't find the raw data, but the Harvard CAPS/Harris Poll shows 6% who believe that abortion should be permitted "up until the birth of the child".
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/446367-poll-nearly-half-of-americans-say-supreme-court-should-uphold-roe-v-wade/

This COSA poll shows that 11.6% of respondents and 18.8% of Democrats support abortion "up until the moment of birth, including partial birth" but that poll didn't have any option between second trimester and the up to point of birth, so I think that is a weak poll.

If you need me to provide some quotes from mainstream pro-abortion politicians in support of the idea that a woman should be able to kill her baby up to the point of birth (not generic late term abortions) I'd be happy to do so.

Because of the extrapolation here that if you do not oppose all abortions under all circumstances, you are a supporter of abortion on demand at the time of birth and baby chop shops.  There is no middle ground.
???  I know you are trying to play the "reasonable centrist" role, but I'm not sure you understand your opposition.

WLJ

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #521 on: June 28, 2022, 01:06:00 PM »
Amazon employees want Amazon to crease doing business in states where abortion is illegal and are requesting time off to grieve the SC ruling.

Cope and SEETHE: Woke Amazon employees demand Amazon cease doing business in pro-life states PLUS time off to ‘grieve’ Roe
https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/06/28/cope-and-seethe-woke-amazon-employees-demand-amazon-cease-doing-business-in-pro-life-states-plus-time-off-to-grieve-roe/

The letter was edited to add more inclusive language

https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1541557369179619331/photo/1
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WLJ

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #522 on: June 28, 2022, 01:23:21 PM »
Quote
According to the new law, every unborn child being brought to a Texas abortion clinic will be surgically issued a tiny AR-15, which will be placed in his tiny hand. Once a buzzer goes off, the abortionist will have only a few seconds to complete the abortion without being shot. Babies unable to grasp the tiny rifle due to disability will be allowed to call Kyle Rittenhouse to defend them.

Compromise: Texas Says Abortion Can Remain Legal But The Baby Gets An AR-15 To Defend Himself
https://babylonbee.com/news/compromise-texas-says-abortion-can-remain-legal-but-the-baby-gets-an-ar-15-to-defend-himself
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Ben

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #523 on: June 28, 2022, 01:25:05 PM »
I saw this morning that Amazon, along with dozens of other big corps, are paying in full for relocation for employees from restrictive to non-restrictive abortion states and travel expenses for out of state abortions for employees.

I'm wondering if they will also offer relocation fees for employees to move to states that restrict abortions, if that is the employee's belief?
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WLJ

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Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
« Reply #524 on: June 28, 2022, 01:27:15 PM »
Pocahontas wants abortion tents set up  in National Parks.

https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/06/28/heap-big-crazy-elizabeth-warren-pushes-biden-to-set-up-planned-parenthood-outposts-tents-on-edges-of-national-parks/

I could see a fight starting up over who came up with the idea first

Quote
    ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: “Open abortion clinics on federal lands in red states right now!”

    “Right now!” pic.twitter.com/sFvl101mSt

    — RNC Research (@RNCResearch) June 28, 2022
https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2022/06/28/aoc-shrieks-at-president-biden-to-implement-the-babiest-of-the-babiest-of-the-baby-steps-to-abort-babies-in-red-states/

I say let them fight
In Thunderdome!
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