Uvalde, Texas elementary school shooting

[Hawkmoon]

400 cops? Holy hell. I'm sure that didn't contribute to mass confusion at all.

I'm trying to think of any single, localized incident like this that had even half this many LE on scene, and am coming up empty. There might be some, but this sounds like more cops than showed up for planned stuff, like Ruby Ridge and Waco.

Of that, 149 were border patrol, 91 were state police, and 25 were City of Uvalde.

I can't think of any way in which a school shooter is within the Border Patrol's jurisdiction. BUT ... one of the slain teachers was the wife of a Border Patrol agent, and I'll bet some (many?) of the kids in the school are children of Border Patrol agents. My guess is that the Border Patrol response was not an official agency response so much as a bunch of BP guys all taking it upon themselves to protect their own families and the families of their fellow BP agents.

I don't say this to disparage their response -- the BP were the guys who ultimately went into the classroom and neutralized the shooter when the people who should have done that couldn't even figure out what was happening or who was in command. But, when you cut to the chase, I can't see any legitimate reason for the Border Patrol to have even been there.

[RoadKingLarry]

Mutual assistance agreement possibly?

[WLJ]

Anyone remember to bring the donuts?

[AZRedhawk44]

The bottom line is that school boards pay lip service to school security but they don't know what that really requires, and they aren't willing to expend the effort to educate themselves. Instead, the elected school boards rely on advice from the "experts." The superintendent isn't interested in spending big bucks to harden the building. They'd much prefer to spend any money they can get their hands on to increase staff, giving them more useless people to supervise and, therefore, more justification for a higher salary. Architects aren't interested in spending money on ballistic-resistant glass. They want to make the buildings beautiful, so the photos will look good on their web site and in the architecture magazines.

Excepting an ever-shrinking handful of older campuses predating the 1960's or so, I don't think there is such a thing as a beautiful school campus.  Most of them LOOK like prisons, even the elementary schools.  Windows that people cannot get out of, steel fences with tines across the top to stop people climbing them, strategic entry/exit chokepoints, and cosplaying security guards ambling about when they're not trying to pick up on the newest doe-eyed teachers on campus.

These buildings are designed to make herding students as efficient as possible, and to cultivate institutional compliance.  The layout of the classrooms are eerily similar to the layout of cubicles in office drone farms.

[Hawkmoon]

Excepting an ever-shrinking handful of older campuses predating the 1960's or so, I don't think there is such a thing as a beautiful school campus.  Most of them LOOK like prisons, even the elementary schools.  Windows that people cannot get out of, steel fences with tines across the top to stop people climbing them, strategic entry/exit chokepoints, and cosplaying security guards ambling about when they're not trying to pick up on the newest doe-eyed teachers on campus.

These buildings are designed to make herding students as efficient as possible, and to cultivate institutional compliance.  The layout of the classrooms are eerily similar to the layout of cubicles in office drone farms.

I disagree, but it may be a regional thing. I know two people who work at this firm, which does mostly schools:

https://antinozzi.com/

Projects from one of Antinozzi's major competitors:

https://mpn-arch.com/projects/education/norwich-technical-high-school
https://mpn-arch.com/projects/education/nayaug-elementary-school
https://mpn-arch.com/projects/education/a-i-prince-technical-high-school

[AZRedhawk44]

These people have done lots of schools in the Gilbert/Mesa/Chandler area here.

https://www.hd-architects.com/educational

They're awful.

[cordex]

We've covered this ground before, but I don't want anyone's kids going to school in a prison, nor would even that guarantee their safety from the already miniscule risk that school shootings represent.

If you're really that risk averse then you'd do way more to reduce the risk of death to your kids by skipping family vacations or having groceries delivered than by sending them to school at Alcatraz Elementary.

Hawkmoon is right that no one doing school design is truly invested in making schools wildly expensive, impenetrable fortresses, but they'd be stupid to want to do that anyway.

[Hawkmoon]

These people have done lots of schools in the Gilbert/Mesa/Chandler area here.

https://www.hd-architects.com/educational

They're awful.

Can't tell how bad or good they are. They conveniently don't show photos of classrooms, laboratories, etc, in the photos of the projects. Perhaps that's intentional?

[Hawkmoon]

Hawkmoon is right that no one doing school design is truly invested in making schools wildly expensive, impenetrable fortresses, but they'd be stupid to want to do that anyway.

That's the catch-22 ... nobody wants schools to be impenetrable fortresses -- until another batch of kids get killed, and then everybody wants to know why the schools AREN'T impenetrable fortresses. Then they see the designs and budgets for impenetrable fortress schools, and everybody then says, "Well, let's reconsider this ..."

[Hawkmoon]

ALERRT is the official DOJ/FBI active shooter training program. The ALERRT team has prepared a critique of the response in the Uvalde school shooting incident:

https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...valde-response

I've read most of the report. While I am in agreement that there was barely-controlled chaos on the scene, I nonetheless find some aspects of the report to be nothing more than Monday morning quarterbacking. YMMV.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/22080543-texas-alerrt-report-on-uvalde-response

[Perd Hapley]

That's the catch-22 ... nobody wants schools to be impenetrable fortresses -- until another batch of kids get killed, and then everybody wants to know why the schools AREN'T impenetrable fortresses. Then they see the designs and budgets for impenetrable fortress schools, and everybody then says, "Well, let's reconsider this ..."

Perhaps that's another reason why homeschooling is taking off.

[sumpnz]

I’m gladder every day that we homeschool.

[WLJ]

27 billion dollar lawsuit against, well pretty much everybody including every law enforcement agency involved, the gun store, and Danial Defense, by a California-based civil rights and personal injury law firm.
Bet it won't be the first.

The class action lawsuit, which is being filed by California-based civil rights and personal injury law firm Bonner & Bonner, will claim that the victims, survivors and their families' 14th Amendment right to life and liberty were violated, attorney Charles Bonner told KSAT.

Bonner and several other legal offices working together on the suit plan to name an array of law enforcement agencies and government entities as defendants.

"We have the school police, ok, Arredondo, we have the city police, and we have the sheriffs, and we have the Texas Rangers, the DPS, and we have the Border Patrol," Bonner told KSAT.

Bonner told KSAT that he and his colleagues also plan to go after the manufacturer of the gun, Daniel Defense, and Oasis Outback — the store where the gunman purchased the weapon

Victims and survivors of Uvalde shooting to file $27 billion lawsuit
https://www.sacurrent.com/news/victims-and-survivors-of-uvalde-shooting-to-file-27-billion-lawsuit-29662604

Guns and Gadgets video on the matter

Daniel Defense Named In $27 Billion Uvalde Lawsuit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsNHpD6TEXs

[sumpnz]

The spaghetti tactic.  Toss a bunch at the wall and see what sticks.

[HankB]

The spaghetti tactic.  Toss a bunch at the wall and see what sticks.

Exactly. There's still a pretty good potential payday if 99% of the lawsuits are tossed.

[WLJ]

Surprised Ford wasn't mentioned for not having "smart" tech to prevent an unauthorized person from driving the F-150 to the crime scene

[WLJ]

Saying they violated policy on how to handle a school shooter. Policy is/was they are to treat any person who fires a gun in a school as an active shooter until they are neutralized and that person can never be treated as a barricaded subject.

Uvalde shooting investigation: Inspector general looking into whether 5 DPS troopers violated policy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRf5zc4ECXI

[HankB]

A lot of early information released turned out to be false, but I remember one piece of info was particularly disturbing - an LEO from "some" agency wanted to go in and get the active shooter, but other LEOs at the scene physically restrained him and disarmed him, preventing his entry. 

One variation had it that this LEO had a child of his own inside the school.

IF this is true - and given the nonsense that came out initially I don't know that it is - THAT officer would seem to have a cause of action against those who prevented him from doing his job, and in fact, those who actively prevented him from going to help the kids in danger ought to be cited as accessories to the murders, since they were acting as a security detail for the killer.

[WLJ]

Lawsuit has been filed against Daniel Defense and police
The one against DD is claiming they targeted children and young men with their marketing and advertising and that this enabled the shooting.

BREAKING: HUGE Lawsuit Filed Against Daniel Defense & POLICE in Uvalde
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nLwnXyrYi0

[Pb]

It is both legal and appropriate for children and young men to own rifles.

But what difference does that make to lawyers and judges?

[MechAg94]

Given the time it took for the police to go in after the shooter, he may have done the same thing with a muzzle loading rifle. 

Doors that weren't locked and school police that wouldn't allow anyone to go in the room, a screwed up kid with a juvenile record that passed an FBI background check.  The gun the kid used is not something I am concerned about. 

[MechAg94]

These lawsuits make me wonder if a good deal on a Daniel Defense rifle would be something to consider.  I guess it isn't a cheap thing to jump into.

[WLJ]

Bearing Arms has picked up the lawsuit story

The family of Eliahna Torres, who was killed in the massacre at Robb Elementary in Uvalde, Texas, filed a lawsuit Monday against nearly two dozen people and entities, including the gun manufacturer and store that provided the rifle used in the May 24 attack and law enforcement officials who responded to the scene, according to court documents.

…

The 76-page federal lawsuit, filed by Everytown Law and a Texas law firm on behalf of Sandra Torres and Eliahna’s siblings, alleges the “mass shooting was enabled by the illegal, reckless, and negligent actions” of gun manufacturer Daniel Defense.

Investigators have said the Uvalde shooter used an AR-15-style rifle manufactured by Daniel Defense.

“Daniel Defense markets its AR-15-style rifles to young male consumers by using militaristic imagery and video game references, by marketing on various social media platforms, and by suggesting that its rifles can be used by civilians for offensive combat-style operations against non-combatants,” the suit alleges. The suit also claims Daniel Defense’s marketing tactics are unfair and violate the Federal Trade Commission Act.

I would like to see an example of the underlined. Maybe something in a game? If so why not sue the game designers and manufacturer?
And what is meant exactly by "unfair"

The gun store is being sued for not being mind readers.

The lawsuit also accuses Oasis Outback, a gun store that delivered the Daniel Defense rifle to the shooter and sold him another weapon and ammunition, of negligent transfer of firearms.

The shooter “had picked up or bought well over $3,000 worth of guns and ammunition, including two AR-style rifles” at Oasis Outback and the store “had a duty not to sell weapons to the just-turned 18-year-old shooter, who it knew or reasonably should have known was likely to harm himself or others,” the lawsuit argues, citing witnesses in the Robb Elementary Investigative Committee Report who claim the shooter was nervous and behaving suspiciously in the store.

In a sane world this would be thrown out. But we're not living in a sane world are we?

Uvalde mother sues gun maker, store, and police
https://bearingarms.com/tomknighton/2022/11/29/uvalde-mother-sues-n64788

[Pb]

These lawsuits are a blatant violation of the Protection of Lawful Commerece in Arms Act.

Does that matter?

Apparently not.

[WLJ]

$27 billion
Not sure how that breaks down between DD and the police. My eyes glaze over just thinking about reading the docs.

Uvalde survivors file a $27 billion class-action lawsuit against police and others
https://wusfnews.wusf.usf.edu/2022-12-02/uvalde-survivors-file-a-27-billion-class-action-lawsuit-against-police-and-others