Uvalde, Texas elementary school shooting

[Perd Hapley]

Deep Thoughts(tm) from the Bulwark:

https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/05/25/bulwark-republicans-who-accuse-liberals-of-defunding-police-are-abetting-crime-and-undermining-law-and-order/

They sound like Bill Kristol's fellow travelers.  Or perhaps the Lincoln Project.

The former. I think they're not full-on Democrats like the LP, but definitely anti-Trump, "principled conservatives." I think the Bulwark came about after the collapse of the American Spectator.

[WLJ]

Deep Thoughts(tm) from the Bulwark:

https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/05/25/bulwark-republicans-who-accuse-liberals-of-defunding-police-are-abetting-crime-and-undermining-law-and-order/

They sound like Bill Kristol's fellow travelers.  Or perhaps the Lincoln Project.

To top that

    Republican complicity in school shootings is part of a larger political design to discredit the public sphere and get Americans to divest from the institutions of democracy, starting with schools. I was about to tweet about this but the Federalist makes the point for me ⬇️ https://t.co/1NLvO80Xoc

    — Ruth Ben-Ghiat (@ruthbenghiat) May 25, 2022

https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/05/25/hot-take-republicans-are-complicit-in-school-shootings-to-discredit-institutions-of-democracy-like-public-schools/

[Hawkmoon]

Although I spoke on the mental health system above, we all remember that not every mass murderer has mental illness.

Ummm ... you might want to rephrase that. They might not have been diagnosed with a mental illness, but killing large numbers of other people isn't exactly sane.

But you are in good (?) company:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/uvalde-grieves-after-school-rampage-while-new-details-emerge-about-attack/ar-AAXJn8c?ocid=uxbndlbing

Abbott, an avowed supporter of gun rights, emphasized mental health in his remarks Wednesday. He said law enforcement officials, community leaders and others told him that there was “a problem with mental health illness in this community” and a significant need for more support on that front.

Despite public perception and misleading commentary from many elected officials, decades of research have found that people with mental illness are responsible for a tiny fraction of interpersonal and other gun violence.

Sure -- most mass murderers are totally sane. 

[Hawkmoon]

Has any media outlet posted the surveillance video that purportedly showed the perp entering the school? I want to know how he entered the building in the first place. I'm going to make a SWAG that the doors were open and that he just walked in -- which should be the very first thing anybody who wants to stop "these kinds of events" from happening should focus on. Too many administrators, boards of education, and architects pay lip service to school security but don't really want to do anything serious about putting it in place and making it work.

Yes, I have real-life, first hand experience dealing with the insanity of those folks.

[AZRedhawk44]

Here's a wild thought:  All these angsty shooters are a symptom of square pegs being shoved into round holes.  Weirdos that for whatever reason, never fit in anywhere or developed synergy or compassion or common identity with someone well enough to stave off nihilism.  The nihilism grows until it's too much to bear, and we get a mass shooter or a suicide or some other horrible event.

Maybe that's NOT mental illness.

Maybe that's a symptom of a shitty institution.  And the common institution between them all is public education.

The more it is homogenized and forced into a one size fits all commodity, the more you expose the atypical student to repeated atypical responses to those stimuli.

[Angel Eyes]

Sure -- most mass murderers are totally sane. 

Not my field of expertise, but I would draw a distinction between insane and evil.

[Perd Hapley]

Ummm ... you might want to rephrase that. They might not have been diagnosed with a mental illness, but killing large numbers of other people isn't exactly sane.

But you are in good (?) company:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/uvalde-grieves-after-school-rampage-while-new-details-emerge-about-attack/ar-AAXJn8c?ocid=uxbndlbing

Sure -- most mass murderers are totally sane. 

Isn't mass murder a tiny fraction of interpersonal violence?  They report that particular fact in a way that implies it contradicts Abbott. Cuz they're liars.

[Perd Hapley]

Not my field of expertise, but I would draw a distinction between insane and evil.

One can be both. Our thinking on this is muddled, partly because we want to be nice to Muslims. It's become common to insist that sane Muslims want peace, and only the insane would embrace violence. But ideologically-driven violence is not necessarily insane.

[Hawkmoon]

As details leak out, this is beginning to look/sound like Parkland all over again.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10855093/Furious-father-Texas-school-shooting-victim-slams-police-failing-stop-gunman-HOUR.html

Once again, apparently the first police to arrive failed to take decisive action. The shooter was finally taken out by a BORDER PATROL tactical team. Until then:

Unable to drive, he crashed into a ditch and then ran to the school on foot, where he was met by an armed security guard.

Yet he was still able to enter the school

How the [bleep] did he get into the school past an armed security guard?

Steve McCraw, director of the Texas department of public safety (DPS), said on Wednesday that a 'brave' school resource officer 'approached him' and 'engaged him' - but added that 'gunfire was not exchanged.'

He did not explain why.

The New York Times reported that their sources said at least one armed law enforcement officer from the Uvalde school district was at the school, and that officer exchanged gunfire with the gunman, but the gunman was able to get past.

Similarities to Parkland:

• The school had armed security, but the shooter got in anyway
• The first cops on the scene didn't enter the building
• The cops who entered the building first weren't from the jurisdiction

[Ben]

There sure seems to be a lot of new information coming out. Looks like it will be a while before we can separate wheat from chaff. I saw this just now:

Department of Public Safety Director Steve McCraw told reporters that 40 minutes to an hour elapsed from when Ramos opened fire on the school security officer to when the tactical team shot him, though a department spokesman said later that they could not give a solid estimate of how long the gunman was in the school or when he was killed.

[MillCreek]

https://www.newsweek.com/uvalde-suspect-salvador-ramos-trans-claimswhat-we-do-know-what-we-dont-1709950

The original posts and tweets from various conservative groups have been walked back.

[MillCreek]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/daniel-defensethe-maker-of-the-uvalde-shooters-perfect-rifleabruptly-exits-the-nra-convention

[Brad Johnson]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/daniel-defensethe-maker-of-the-uvalde-shooters-perfect-rifleabruptly-exits-the-nra-convention

I want to know how a high school student from a supposedly less-than-affluent family could afford a couple of weapons, much less a DD rifle. Also, how and where did he get them, especially since the reports I've heard said neither his parents nor his grandparents had knowledge of them.

Brad

[WLJ]

https://www.newsweek.com/uvalde-suspect-salvador-ramos-trans-claimswhat-we-do-know-what-we-dont-1709950

While I don't dispute much of what is stated in the article my eyes start to glaze over when I see terms like "conspiracy media".

[Ben]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/daniel-defensethe-maker-of-the-uvalde-shooters-perfect-rifleabruptly-exits-the-nra-convention

Typical Daily Beast.

Daniel Defense seems to be making the best moves they can right now. Everyone is looking to sue Ford after the drunk driver kills someone.

Tangent, but the lawsuits may end up playing into what I consider the somewhat poorly written abortion law in Texas. People are already saying that you should be able to basically sue anyone related to a gun (manufacturer, dealer, owner) similar to how that abortion law works.

[Nick1911]

I want to know how a high school student from a supposedly less-than-affluent family could afford a couple of weapons, much less a DD rifle. Also, how and where did he get them, especially since the reports I've heard said neither his parents nor his grandparents had knowledge of them.

Brad

If you're a crazy person who's end game involves being dead in the near term, it seems reasonable that a couple credit cards would suffice.

[WLJ]

AR-15 = Nazi gun

    Invented for Nazi infantrymen, further developed by the US military, the AR-15 was the Texas school shooter’s weapon of choice…. https://t.co/Pw3AwI9pbc

    — Marc Fisher (@mffisher) May 26, 2022

https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/05/26/wapo-senior-editor-reminds-us-that-the-ar-15-was-invented-for-nazi-infantrymen-in-the-late-1950s/

[MillCreek]

Typical Daily Beast.

Daniel Defense seems to be making the best moves they can right now. Everyone is looking to sue Ford after the drunk driver kills someone.

Tangent, but the lawsuits may end up playing into what I consider the somewhat poorly written abortion law in Texas. People are already saying that you should be able to basically sue anyone related to a gun (manufacturer, dealer, owner) similar to how that abortion law works.

I had read that California was working to pass a law using that very same lawsuit model.

[Angel Eyes]

AR-15 = Nazi gun
https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/05/26/wapo-senior-editor-reminds-us-that-the-ar-15-was-invented-for-nazi-infantrymen-in-the-late-1950s/

[WLJ]

And here the left had you thinking Musk was a "Far Right Wing Extremist"

    Assault rifles should at minimum require a special permit, where the recipient is extremely well vetted imo

    — Elon Musk (@elonmusk) May 26, 2022

https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/05/26/elon-musk-appears-to-conflate-ar-15s-with-assault-rifles-and-suggests-limiting-sales-of-assault-weapons-to-people-in-special-circumstances/

[Ben]

And here the left had you thinking Musk was a "Far Right Wing Extremist"
https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/05/26/elon-musk-appears-to-conflate-ar-15s-with-assault-rifles-and-suggests-limiting-sales-of-assault-weapons-to-people-in-special-circumstances/

He lacks knowledge here. He's only recently been red-pilled, so I would give him the opportunity to educate himself. Right now his knowledge base is the information he would have gleaned from his old blue news and information sources.

[WLJ]

He lacks knowledge here. He's only recently been red-pilled, so I would give him the opportunity to educate himself. Right now his knowledge base is the information he would have gleaned from his old blue news and information sources.

I would hope so.
But I find it somewhat humorous how he's not fitting in solidly in one camp or another but being his own man with his own opinions. Probably something that scares the left even more.

[Lennyjoe]

Why can’t we re-direct the unused billions set aside from the Covid bill to schools for security enhancements?  Why can’t the Department of Education stand up a security department to help standardize enhanced security measures for schools? 

I’m not talking Fort Knox type security but at least some enhanced entry and manned security guidelines to reduce the risk level.

https://thenationaldesk.com/news/americas-news-now/billions-in-covid-relief-funds-remain-unspent-by-schools-as-students-flee-public-districts-pandemic-american-rescue-plan-funding-coronavirus?fbclid=IwAR0kWwIddccaTTAR95Bf25XIaixwU0cyQrgm7GCDSYusBMqi_DStvfGhoMI&fs=e&s=cl

[MechAg94]

As details leak out, this is beginning to look/sound like Parkland all over again.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10855093/Furious-father-Texas-school-shooting-victim-slams-police-failing-stop-gunman-HOUR.html

Once again, apparently the first police to arrive failed to take decisive action. The shooter was finally taken out by a BORDER PATROL tactical team. Until then:

How the [bleep] did he get into the school past an armed security guard?

Similarities to Parkland:

• The school had armed security, but the shooter got in anyway
• The first cops on the scene didn't enter the building
• The cops who entered the building first weren't from the jurisdiction

I am seeing that a little myself.  Salty Cracker talked about this link.

Witness: Police Stood Outside the School While Mass Murderer Salvador Ramos Went on Killing Spree – Armed Police Pinned One Man to the Ground (VIDEO)
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/05/watch-police-stood-outside-school-mass-murderer-salvador-ramos-went-killing-spree-armed-police-pinned-one-man-ground/

A viral video making rounds online shows anxious, angry parents pleading to the police to go inside the school while mass murderer Salvador Ramos spent more than 40 minutes inside.

I am not sure what happened, but that looks like more than enough cops to go in assuming they were not inside already.  Based on the press conference yesterday, it sounded like cops were inside pretty quick. 

In the press event yesterday, they mentioned that a School Resource Officer saw the man outside.  I can't remember if they said he confronted him or not, but he didn't fire on the man.  Didn't say why.  They then said other officers pinned the guy down inside the school or fired on him enough to keep him from moving around. 

That and this article makes me think of this scenario:  He made it inside into one classroom.  They kept him from leaving it.  But he had free reign to shoot the kids and teacher that were in there.  That would be pretty bad if true.  Video from the school hallways would be helpful (I don't want to see classroom video).  Since the murderer is dead, I hope we get video and other additional evidence faster.


It wouldn't take much to have armor or bullet proof shields that would allow them to move in relatively safely.  Stuff like that could be stored in a resource officer office.  Just ideas.

[sumpnz]

Why can’t we re-direct the unused billions set aside from the Covid bill to schools for security enhancements?  Why can’t the Department of Education stand up a security department to help standardize enhanced security measures for schools? 

I’m not talking Fort Knox type security but at least some enhanced entry and manned security guidelines to reduce the risk level.

https://thenationaldesk.com/news/americas-news-now/billions-in-covid-relief-funds-remain-unspent-by-schools-as-students-flee-public-districts-pandemic-american-rescue-plan-funding-coronavirus?fbclid=IwAR0kWwIddccaTTAR95Bf25XIaixwU0cyQrgm7GCDSYusBMqi_DStvfGhoMI&fs=e&s=cl

I don’t know if those kind of measures are really all that necessary.  If half a dozen armed staff members (or parent volunteers) were present on campus daily, and all had received good quality training in how to effectively respond to active shooter incidents then within a short time frame nobody would view schools as a soft target for such attacks.  That wouldn’t stop Beslan type events, or insider attacks like Bath Township, or long range shooters like the Jonesboro incident.  But neither would other security like you mentioned.