Author Topic: Uvalde, Texas elementary school shooting  (Read 24057 times)

Ben

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 45,745
  • I'm an Extremist!
Re: Uvalde, Texas elementary school shooting
« Reply #175 on: May 28, 2022, 08:06:53 AM »
As a preface, I am absolutely not trying to remove any responsibility from the shooter. However, reading this, I wonder how much social media, and labeling him "school shooter" prior to the shooting, might have sent him over the edge or even giving him the idea? His apparent behavior on this social media platform certainly shows violent aberrations.



https://www.foxnews.com/us/texas-school-shooting-gunman-threats-yubo-school-shooter-social-media
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

MechAg94

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33,622
Re: Uvalde, Texas elementary school shooting
« Reply #176 on: May 28, 2022, 09:36:11 AM »
Two Unnamed Boys the Same Age as the Shooter Were Arrested in 2018 for Planning Columbine-Style Shooting at Uvalde School in 2022
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/05/two-unnamed-boys-age-shooter-arrested-2018-planning-columbine-style-shooting-uvalde-school-2022/

Quote
“Investigators also believe the students were planning to hold the attacks years from now during their senior year, on the anniversary of the Columbine shooting. However, one of the students began to convince the other that they should move the attacks up to this year,” the report said.

Advertisement - story continues below

“One of the students had numerous writings and drawings which depicted weapons capable of causing mass destruction. He wrote about being ‘God-like’ and killing police and other persons. He had an academic analysis of one of the Columbine shooter’s journals,” the release stated.


This is interesting.  They had a credible threat only a few years before.  The point about planning to do it a few years later is interesting.  Was the murderer involved with these other kids or influenced by them?   Since they were unnamed and minors, was he one of them?
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

MechAg94

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33,622
Re: Uvalde, Texas elementary school shooting
« Reply #177 on: May 28, 2022, 09:57:05 AM »
There should be dire legal consequences for that teacher who left the door open.

And based on what's come out in the last 24 hours, there are a bunch of LEOs who at a bare minimum should never, ever, be allowed to carry a badge again.
Have any of you here 1) when the teacher propped the door open, and 2) was it something done regularly?

I heard Salty Cracker say it was done only minutes before the murderer came in.  I haven't seen that detail anywhere.
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

MechAg94

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33,622
Re: Uvalde, Texas elementary school shooting
« Reply #178 on: May 28, 2022, 09:59:19 AM »
Fed Who Killed Shooter Got Gun From Barber, Sped To School After Getting Text From Wife Who Was Inside
https://www.dailywire.com/news/new-details-emerge-about-heroic-border-patrol-and-ice-agents-storming-classroom-and-killing-shooter

Quote
Approximately 80 federal agents had responded to the shooting on Tuesday at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas, but were instructed by local law enforcement to wait and not go after the attacker.

“After approximately 30 minutes passed, however, the federal agents opted of their own volition to lead the ‘stack’ of officers inside the school and take down the shooter,” NBC News reported.

Quote
“Initially, the Bortac agents couldn’t get into the classroom because of a steel door and cinder block construction,” the report said. “Meanwhile, the gunman … shot at them through the door and walls.”

“The Bortac agents got a master key from the school principal that allowed them to enter the room,” the report added. “One Bortac agent’s shield was hit by rounds upon entering and a second agent was wounded by shrapnel. A third killed the suspect.”
I am curious about the shooting through the walls comment.  I believe 5.56 will go through cinder block, but it will take more than a few shots. 

The link also mentioned getting keys.  Did none of them have a pry bar or something to crack the door? 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

WLJ

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,849
  • On Patrol In The Epsilon Eridani System
Re: Uvalde, Texas elementary school shooting
« Reply #179 on: May 28, 2022, 10:03:31 AM »
Have any of you here 1) when the teacher propped the door open, and 2) was it something done regularly?

I heard Salty Cracker say it was done only minutes before the murderer came in.  I haven't seen that detail anywhere.

Saw somewhere the door was propped open a minute or so before he crashed his truck.
Which would mean the whole time he's shooting outside the school, reportedly for 12 minutes, no one thought of closing the door.
Why the door was propped open? Someone or someones were taking a smoke break perhaps?
Reportedly the police enter through the same door.

Now the timing of when the door was propped open may be off but it appears it was in fact propped open.
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
- Calvin and Hobbes

MechAg94

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33,622
Re: Uvalde, Texas elementary school shooting
« Reply #180 on: May 28, 2022, 10:08:39 AM »
Father of Uvalde Shooter: ‘I Don’t Want Them Calling Him a Monster… They Don’t Know Nothing’
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/05/father-uvalde-shooter-dont-want-calling-monster-dont-know-nothing/

Some odd statements in this about not having enough clothes and him wearing the same pants every day.  Considering he bought an expensive AR prior to the shooting, he could afford a few pair of pants.  He may have been referring to something from years before. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

Ben

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 45,745
  • I'm an Extremist!
Re: Uvalde, Texas elementary school shooting
« Reply #181 on: May 28, 2022, 10:09:54 AM »
The link also mentioned getting keys.  Did none of them have a pry bar or something to crack the door?

I only have a cursory knowledge of breach rounds, but I would have assumed a tactics team would have a shotty with the rounds. Perhaps they are too dangerous for situations where there are innocents on the other side of the door.

A steel door that is well mounted into a block wall could be difficult to breach with rams, etc.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

Ben

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 45,745
  • I'm an Extremist!
Re: Uvalde, Texas elementary school shooting
« Reply #182 on: May 28, 2022, 10:14:27 AM »
Father of Uvalde Shooter: ‘I Don’t Want Them Calling Him a Monster… They Don’t Know Nothing’
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/05/father-uvalde-shooter-dont-want-calling-monster-dont-know-nothing/

Some odd statements in this about not having enough clothes and him wearing the same pants every day.  Considering he bought an expensive AR prior to the shooting, he could afford a few pair of pants.  He may have been referring to something from years before.

These are definitely two people who should never have had children. He refused to see his son because of covid? Come on, man.

They need to stop with that pants story as well, it makes them look ridiculous and too stupid to figure out that you can buy 400 pairs of walmart pants for what the kid spent on weapons and accessories.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

Hawkmoon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,198
Re: Uvalde, Texas elementary school shooting
« Reply #183 on: May 28, 2022, 10:17:40 AM »

A steel door that is well mounted into a block wall could be difficult to breach with rams, etc.

Almost impossible. School classroom doors, by code, must open outward, in the direction of egress travel. A steel door will be in a steel frame and, if the walls are concrete block, that steel frame will be very solidly anchored. The door stop -- the part the door closes against -- is an integral part of the steel frame, not nailed on like the stops in residential wood frames. Hitting it with a battering ramp will just push the door against the stop, dent the door and batter the guys running the ram.

I don't know exactly how breaching rounds work but my assumption has been that they simply destroy the lock. I don't think they pose any significant hazard to people in the room beyond the door.

[Edit to add] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breaching_round

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUGJ-l9cGoA
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
100% Politically Incorrect by Design

WLJ

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,849
  • On Patrol In The Epsilon Eridani System
Re: Uvalde, Texas elementary school shooting
« Reply #184 on: May 28, 2022, 10:19:26 AM »
A bunch of tin foil hat posts on the internet over the both the propped door and the police response.
I'll say it again

Incompetence is often mistaken for conspiracy
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
- Calvin and Hobbes

Ben

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 45,745
  • I'm an Extremist!
Re: Uvalde, Texas elementary school shooting
« Reply #185 on: May 28, 2022, 10:28:38 AM »
I'm afraid that Daniel Defense, who did absolutely nothing wrong, may not survive this.

https://youtu.be/xa99xtmvpOE
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

MechAg94

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33,622
Re: Uvalde, Texas elementary school shooting
« Reply #186 on: May 28, 2022, 10:41:51 AM »
Almost impossible. School classroom doors, by code, must open outward, in the direction of egress travel. A steel door will be in a steel frame and, if the walls are concrete block, that steel frame will be very solidly anchored. The door stop -- the part the door closes against -- is an integral part of the steel frame, not nailed on like the stops in residential wood frames. Hitting it with a battering ramp will just push the door against the stop, dent the door and batter the guys running the ram.

I don't know exactly how breaching rounds work but my assumption has been that they simply destroy the lock. I don't think they pose any significant hazard to people in the room beyond the door.

[Edit to add] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breaching_round

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUGJ-l9cGoA
I was thinking more about a 5 or 6 foot pry bar to break the door.  I am sure other tools would work also. 

https://www.grainger.com/product/TRUE-TEMPER-Pinch-Bars-21YM29
https://www.grainger.com/product/LFI-Pry-Bars-36HV54

Seems to me that shotgun breaching rounds would be considered unsafe when entering a room with kids.  Might be safe, but not judged safe.
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

Hawkmoon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,198
Re: Uvalde, Texas elementary school shooting
« Reply #187 on: May 28, 2022, 10:42:16 AM »
Hanlon's Razor: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. "
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
100% Politically Incorrect by Design

MechAg94

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33,622
Re: Uvalde, Texas elementary school shooting
« Reply #188 on: May 28, 2022, 10:44:19 AM »
Hanlon's Razor: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. "
I would agree with that with regard to the door being propped open.  I can see people wanting their smoke break and the school administrators won't give them keys to get back in if the door closes.  Easy answer is to prop the door open.  Probably happened a lot and they probably forgot to close it when they were done a lot. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

Hawkmoon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,198
Re: Uvalde, Texas elementary school shooting
« Reply #189 on: May 28, 2022, 10:48:33 AM »
I was thinking more about a 5 or 6 foot pry bar to break the door.  I am sure other tools would work also. 

https://www.grainger.com/product/TRUE-TEMPER-Pinch-Bars-21YM29
https://www.grainger.com/product/LFI-Pry-Bars-36HV54

Won't work quickly, and probably not at all. This is a school. I doubt those doors are the type of insulated steel doors that are used as front doors on most houses these days. They are probably commercial-grade steel doors. My guess is that a couple of big, strong guys could work on it for a half hour and maybe get it open in that time.


Quote
Seems to me that shotgun breaching rounds would be considered unsafe when entering a room with kids.  Might be safe, but not judged safe.

Cops who use them should know how they work. They are the ones who would (or should) decide whether or not to use them.

The door in the video I posted is a residential steel door with the lock area replaced by wood. I couldn't find a video showing a breaching round used on a commercial-grade steel door.
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
100% Politically Incorrect by Design

Ben

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 45,745
  • I'm an Extremist!
Re: Uvalde, Texas elementary school shooting
« Reply #190 on: May 28, 2022, 01:27:59 PM »
A tangent, but this stuff irritates me to no end. What the *expletive deleted*ck do I care about some sports moron and his "specific actions"? Why does the MSM (right to left) have to constantly highlight sports morons and Hollywood morons and their "expert opinions" about things they have zero knowledge about, and why do so many people hang on their words?

Quote
Kapler told reporters before Friday’s series opener at Cincinnati that, moving forward, he doesn’t plan on taking the field for the national anthem “until I feel better about the direction of our country” and that he needs more time to consider specific actions he might suggest be taken to prevent more tragedies of this type, such as stronger gun control laws.

https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2022/05/28/sf-giants-manager-wont-come-out-for-natl-anthem-until-he-feels-better-about-the-direction-of-the-county/
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

kgbsquirrel

  • APS Photoshop God
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,466
  • Bill, slayer of threads.
Re: Uvalde, Texas elementary school shooting
« Reply #191 on: May 28, 2022, 01:52:22 PM »
A tangent, but this stuff irritates me to no end. What the *expletive deleted*ck do I care about some sports moron and his "specific actions"? Why does the MSM (right to left) have to constantly highlight sports morons and Hollywood morons and their "expert opinions" about things they have zero knowledge about, and why do so many people hang on their words?

https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2022/05/28/sf-giants-manager-wont-come-out-for-natl-anthem-until-he-feels-better-about-the-direction-of-the-county/

Because people like you are sure to drag it into places like this to ensure people like me see it when I've intentionally avoided looking at their dreck.

Angel Eyes

  • Lying dog-faced pony soldier
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,258
  • You're not diggin'
Re: Uvalde, Texas elementary school shooting
« Reply #192 on: May 28, 2022, 01:53:01 PM »
A tangent, but this stuff irritates me to no end. What the *expletive deleted*ck do I care about some sports moron and his "specific actions"? Why does the MSM (right to left) have to constantly highlight sports morons and Hollywood morons and their "expert opinions" about things they have zero knowledge about, and why do so many people hang on their words?

https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2022/05/28/sf-giants-manager-wont-come-out-for-natl-anthem-until-he-feels-better-about-the-direction-of-the-county/




"You" being Kapler, of course.
"I make love to men daily, but in the imagination."
                         - Barack Obama

Ben

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 45,745
  • I'm an Extremist!
Re: Uvalde, Texas elementary school shooting
« Reply #193 on: May 28, 2022, 03:02:58 PM »
The first congressional R has folded:

Quote
A Republican U.S. congressman on May 27 said he would vote for a ban of so-called assault weapons.

“I want to be completely transparent of where I am in Congress,” said Rep. Chris Jacobs (R-N.Y.). “If an assault weapons ban bill came to the floor that would ban something like an AR-15, I would vote for it.”

https://www.theepochtimes.com/republican-congressman-says-he-would-vote-for-an-assault-weapons-ban_4497658.html

Edit: He's also introducing a bill to ban body armor.

Quote
Jacobs said that he is supportive of a range of ideas, including proposals that would limit the size of magazines that people can obtain and increase the age one must be to buy AR-15-style guns from 18 to 21. He also plans to write a bill that would ban civilians from buying body armor.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

WLJ

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,849
  • On Patrol In The Epsilon Eridani System
Re: Uvalde, Texas elementary school shooting
« Reply #194 on: May 28, 2022, 03:51:01 PM »
The first congressional R has folded:

https://www.theepochtimes.com/republican-congressman-says-he-would-vote-for-an-assault-weapons-ban_4497658.html

Edit: He's also introducing a bill to ban body armor.

If you ban them what's the point of an age limit on buying?
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
- Calvin and Hobbes

WLJ

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,849
  • On Patrol In The Epsilon Eridani System
Re: Uvalde, Texas elementary school shooting
« Reply #195 on: May 28, 2022, 04:44:35 PM »
Apparently someone claiming to be the uncle of one of the children has been spreading stories about Gov Abbott harassing relatives over gun control triggering several libs and MSM to start foaming at the mouth with calls to prosecute Gov Abbott. The guy has an interesting history so to speak.

Keith Olbermann is speechless, says the DOJ needs to prosecute Gov. Greg Abbott because of this totally true story
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/05/26/keith-olbermann-is-speechless-says-the-doj-needs-to-prosecute-gov-greg-abbott-because-of-this-totally-true-story/

 Andy Ngô exposes SICKO claiming to be the uncle of a slain Uvalde student accusing Gov. Abbott of horrible things (SOOO many idiot blue-checks fell for it)
https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/05/27/andy-ngo-exposes-sicko-claiming-to-be-the-uncle-of-a-slain-uvalde-student-accusing-gov-abbott-of-horrible-things-sooo-many-idiot-blue-checks-who-fell-for-it/

Despite this being exposed as a total fabrication by a well know lair some in the the MSM are still running with it
Shocked- No
Disappointed - Yes

He LIED About Losing Child In Texas Incident & Was Still Promoted By Media Anyway
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUcFj2_wn_k
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
- Calvin and Hobbes

WLJ

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,849
  • On Patrol In The Epsilon Eridani System
Re: Uvalde, Texas elementary school shooting
« Reply #196 on: May 28, 2022, 05:47:13 PM »
Some nice takes

Quote
    If a weapon is so dangerous that a squad of police officers are too afraid to confront a single person wielding it, that weapon should be banned.

    — Katelyn Burns (@transscribe) May 26, 2022

Quote
    They don’t confiscate them. If you are registered owner you are fined daily until you turn in. If you don’t pay your fine, they take what equity you have to pay the fine, or garnish your wages.

    — Dragontail1 (@Dragontail110) May 28, 2022

Quote
    Guns need to be confiscated to save lives, I don’t care how many dead gun owners and feds it takes

    — Zach W (@ZWass777) May 27, 2022

MSNBC columnist says AR-15s should be banned if police are too afraid to confront one
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/05/28/msnbc-columnist-says-ar-15s-should-be-banned-if-police-are-too-afraid-to-confront-one/

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
- Calvin and Hobbes

Hawkmoon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,198
Re: Uvalde, Texas elementary school shooting
« Reply #197 on: May 28, 2022, 05:59:44 PM »
Some nice takes

MSNBC columnist says AR-15s should be banned if police are too afraid to confront one
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/05/28/msnbc-columnist-says-ar-15s-should-be-banned-if-police-are-too-afraid-to-confront-one/

Time to sell a couple of handguns and buy a Ruger Mini-14 (and maybe a Mini-30 while I'm at it).

Are the newer Mini-14s any less inaccurate than the old ones?
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
100% Politically Incorrect by Design

WLJ

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,849
  • On Patrol In The Epsilon Eridani System
Re: Uvalde, Texas elementary school shooting
« Reply #198 on: May 28, 2022, 06:13:56 PM »
Time to sell a couple of handguns and buy a Ruger Mini-14 (and maybe a Mini-30 while I'm at it).

Are the newer Mini-14s any less inaccurate than the old ones?

The newer 5800 series (Post 2005?) are generally a bit more accurate. Still not as accurate as a half way decent AR but better than they were.
Prepare for sticker shock though. They usually go for ~1k new.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2022, 11:06:54 PM by WLJ »
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
- Calvin and Hobbes

WLJ

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,849
  • On Patrol In The Epsilon Eridani System
Re: Uvalde, Texas elementary school shooting
« Reply #199 on: May 28, 2022, 06:47:04 PM »
Comment I just came across to a MAC video

Quote
I hope this channel gets shut down immediately. No one needs a weapon of war. Totally insane. Weapons of mass distraction belong on the battle field, not in the hands of wannabe Rambo's.

Yeah....

And yes I noticed the misspell of destruction
« Last Edit: May 28, 2022, 07:01:59 PM by WLJ »
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
- Calvin and Hobbes