Here Are A Couple Questions For Uvalde Victim Relatives To Ask ...

[ConstitutionCowboy]

Did my son/daughter/spouse bleed out and die because law enforcement delayed going in? How may lives could have been saved had an immediate entry into that school been conducted?

As for me, I wonder if this point has been addressed by local authorities, relatives, and the media ...

Makes me sick to think about it.

Woody

[230RN]

A more direct question is why weren't some of the teachers armed?

I'm sure many of them have been inured in the anti-gun attitudes fostered by the colleges, universities, media, and witless/gutless politicians, but surely some would have the gumption to show armed resistance to the shooter if allowed to be armed.

Say, by the way, wasn't he carrying a firearm within 1000 ft of a school?  I always thought that was illegal, but you think the MSM would have picked up on that clear violation of the law?

Lot of good that law did, no?

Terry, 230RN

[Bogie]

We need to push for the elimination of gun-free easy victim zones...

[Hawkmoon]

Did my son/daughter/spouse bleed out and die because law enforcement delayed going in? How may lives could have been saved had an immediate entry into that school been conducted?

As for me, I wonder if this point has been addressed by local authorities, relatives, and the media ...

The point has been mentioned, but not explored fully. Obviously, it can't be answered quantitatively.

[Hawkmoon]

We need to push for the elimination of gun-free easy victim zones...

Won't make any difference if we allow guns in places where the regular occupants are too young to carry and the "adults" in the room think guns are icky.

[MechAg94]

Who exactly was in charge and making the decision to wait?  Had to be someone there on the site, maybe more than one as more officers showed up.  We need names.

Did they realize he was shooting kids or did they assume it was a hostage situation?

Did they have officers in the hallways making sure he didn't move from room to room? 

Is there a recording of the radio and phone traffic of the police.  Make that public. 

[Boomhauer]

Active shooter policy has been for at least twenty years now to move in and stop or attempt to stop the active shooter with what you have vs waiting on a team effort.

They failed that which is bad enough and then when they DID have the team together they still waited. *expletive deleted*ing disgusting. Best info I heard is the Feds of all people got a master key from the principle and made entry after getting tired of the local fuckups.

[Hawkmoon]

Who exactly was in charge and making the decision to wait?  Had to be someone there on the site, maybe more than one as more officers showed up.  We need names.

We have a name: https://apnews.com/article/uvalde-school-shooting-police-184334fed299bad71e257b585f7790ea

The Uvalde School District police chief, Pete Arredondo, decided that the group of officers should wait to confront the assailant, on the belief that the active attack was over, according to Steven McCraw, the head of the Texas Department of Public Safety.

No photo in this article, and I couldn't find the article I saw yesterday that included his photo. Chief Arredondo hasn't missed many meals for a number of years. In fact, he looks a lot like a certain police officer who was responsible for officers not entering the school at Parkland a few years ago.

[ConstitutionCowboy]

A more direct question is why weren't some of the teachers armed?

...

Terry, 230RN

Bingo!

Woody

[Bogie]

All you have to do is make it NOT a gun-free easy victim zone.
 
The possibility of armed teachers or staff is the concept.
 
Simply allow any of them who are not felons or otherwise prohibited (and... if they are, why are they teaching kids?) the option - the choice - of carrying concealed.
 
That removes the safe space for the nutjob's tantrum. They won't know if they'll meet opposition, and not get their headlines, and thus will go somewhere else.

[WLJ]

Why is our society including it's education system producing children who want to kill children?

[Hawkmoon]

All you have to do is make it NOT a gun-free easy victim zone.
 
The possibility of armed teachers or staff is the concept.
 
Simply allow any of them who are not felons or otherwise prohibited (and... if they are, why are they teaching kids?) the option - the choice - of carrying concealed.
 
That removes the safe space for the nutjob's tantrum. They won't know if they'll meet opposition, and not get their headlines, and thus will go somewhere else.

Already possible in Texas: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/are-texas-teachers-armed-and-what-role-do-school-resource-officers-play-in-protecting-students/ar-AAXJ1eE

About 365 school districts in Texas allow staff to carry firearms on school premises. They represent about 36% of the 1,023 independent school districts in Texas.

In 2013, the Texas Legislature passed two methods to authorize employees to carry firearms on school property. Texas school districts are able to opt into: the Guardian Plan and the School Marshal Plan.

The School Marshal Program allows marshals designated by a district to be armed. Since 2013, Texas law has permitted school districts to appoint one or more specially trained and licensed employees as school marshals. Those school marshals can carry a handgun on the school premises after 80 hours of training. School marshals are restricted from carrying concealed firearms if they’re in regular contact with the students. In that case, the marshal can have a gun in a safe at the school. Schools can appoint one marshal per 100 students in average daily attendance, or for a private school, one marshal per 100 students enrolled.

Only a few districts have chosen the School Marshal plan and instead opted for the Guardian Plan. As of 2018, 303 school districts had adopted the Guardian Plan, according to the TASB. And there are currently 62 school districts participating in the School Marshal Program, the Texas Commission on Law Enforcement told the Star-Telegram.

[Bogie]

It's how they get attention.
 
And there's a lot of publicity involved.
 
The "parents" are too busy watching TV. The "teachers" are too busy making sure the proper forms are filled out.
 
Counselors and shrinks _want_ positive outcomes so badly that they create them on paper.
 
The hoplophobes think that a magical sign will help. Then they think that they need to fortify their magical sign place.
 
And the bureaucrats make things difficult. They don't like "keep it simple."

[zxcvbob]

We have a name: https://apnews.com/article/uvalde-school-shooting-police-184334fed299bad71e257b585f7790ea

No photo in this article, and I couldn't find the article I saw yesterday that included his photo. Chief Arredondo hasn't missed many meals for a number of years. In fact, he looks a lot like a certain police officer who was responsible for officers not entering the school at Parkland a few years ago.

https://nypost.com/2022/05/28/uvalde-school-police-chief-pete-arredondo-is-a-coward-neighbor/

[Boomhauer]

Why is our society including it's education system producing children who want to kill children?

The left’s woke war on traditional America,

[230RN]

<fume>
<froth at the mouth>

Per Hawkmoon's quote:

"The School Marshal Program allows marshals designated by a district to be armed. Since 2013, Texas law has permitted school districts to appoint one or more specially trained and licensed employees as school marshals. Those school marshals can carry a handgun on the school premises after 80 hours of training. School marshals are restricted from carrying concealed firearms if they’re in regular contact with the students. In that case, the marshal can have a gun in a safe at the school. Schools can appoint one marshal per 100 students in average daily attendance, or for a private school, one marshal per 100 students enrolled."

As much as I see this as a step in the right direction, I think it's just plain stupid.

Eighty hours of training?  What the hell are they training for?  To recognize the sound of gunfire?

This is the sound of a gunshot :  BANG!

And this is the sound of a door slamming :  BANG!

And this is the sound of a bowling ball dropping onto the floor :  BANG!

You don't have to worry about doors slamming or bowling balls dropping.  Oh, and forget it if there are only 99 students per...

Stupid, stupid, stupid...

Sorry, but that's the way I see it, and pardon my hyperbole.  But that's what you get when a stupid-assed electorate elects stupid-assed lawmakers.

Oh, oh, oh... and the gun has to be kept in a safe if the marshal has regular contact with students.

Haisoos Aitch Christos on a silver crutch!

</fume>
</froth at the mouth>

Terry, 230RN

[Hawkmoon]

Here's an article with photos of Chief Arredondo:

https://nypost.com/2022/05/29/uvalde-shooter-salvador-ramos-is-not-the-only-one-to-blame-for-massacre/

The chief is now hiding in his home with round-the-clock police protection outside so he won't have to answer any embarrassing questions.

[MechAg94]

Even if the decision was made that they didn't need to do an entry on the one class room, wouldn't it be best to have officers with rifles in the hallways to make sure the murderer could not get into another class room?  If there were outside windows, maybe they could have had sharpshooters set up to shoot through the windows and then had others punch out the windows.  They could have surrounded the one room and began evacuations of the rest of the school. 

That would have at least made it look like they were doing something.  Instead, they just did nothing at all.


Another question:  Did the local officers have plans on the books for reacting to an active shooter at the school?  Did they do training on it?  What does that training teach?

[HankB]

Even if the decision was made that they didn't need to do an entry on the one class room, wouldn't it be best to have officers with rifles in the hallways to make sure the murderer could not get into another class room?  If there were outside windows, maybe they could have had sharpshooters set up to shoot through the windows and then had others punch out the windows. 
They could have surrounded the one room and began evacuations of the rest of the school.  That would have at least made it look like they were doing something.  Instead, they just did nothing at all.

All of this true, and NONE of it is hindsight or Monday morning quarterbacking - all of this and more has been supposedly SOP since Columbine. But the worthless bureaucrats and LEOs ignored the best practices playbook.

And the Chief? Chief Arredondo seems to fit the profile of a great many police chiefs - they are chosen for reasons OTHER than their police leadership capabilities. 

IANAL so I don't know if criminal negligence charges are applicable, but for sure there are some LEOs who should NEVER be allowed to carry a badge again.

[MechAg94]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/new-timeline-of-texas-school-shooting-includes-student-911-calls-as-officers-wait-outside/ar-AAXOsLp
I saw this link.  Looks like police were outside the classroom almost immediately. 

[WLJ]

I would like to see photos of the door or another door similar to that door in the school. I would like to see what they were up against in breaching the door

[Angel Eyes]

We have a name: https://apnews.com/article/uvalde-school-shooting-police-184334fed299bad71e257b585f7790ea

More background on the chief:  https://heavy.com/news/pete-arredondo/

[Hawkmoon]

Another question:  Did the local officers have plans on the books for reacting to an active shooter at the school?  Did they do training on it?  What does that training teach?

They had conducted an active shooter drill at that school just two months ago ...

[Hawkmoon]

More background on the chief:  https://heavy.com/news/pete-arredondo/

Media can't get anything right. From the link above:

According to McCraw, “a barrage, hundreds of rounds were pumped in in four minutes” by Ramos into two classrooms right at the beginning, so it was believed there were no more people alive inside the classroom. Any gunfire after that was “sporadic.” Both classroom doors were locked on the inside, he said. Some of the 911 callers survived, he said, but he was not specific.

School classroom doors are NEVER locked on the inside. NEVER. There is a specific door hardware function called "Classroom Lock." Every major manufacturer of commercial locks offers it. The doors are NEVER locked on the inside -- "inside" being the classroom side. They can be locked on the outside, however, and it was my understanding that since Sandy Hook it has been S.O.P. for the doors to always be closed and locked during classes, in order to forestall exactly this type of situation.

[AZRedhawk44]

I would like to see photos of the door or another door similar to that door in the school. I would like to see what they were up against in breaching the door

I'd like someone to ensure this door is preserved as evidence and doesn't suffer the same evidentiary fate as the infamous doors of Waco.  I want to see the bullet holes.  the number, and the direction.