Author Topic: SCOTUS sides with prayers on the high school football field  (Read 2101 times)

De Selby

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Re: SCOTUS sides with prayers on the high school football field
« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2022, 11:46:26 PM »
In this case, I don't see it as doing this on work time.  This is after the school event is over. 

If he changed into a neutral shirt and hat, would you consider that no longer in connection to his work?  Seems like the wrong place to draw that line.

Why is asking that you not associate yourself with government employment in a role of authority over students unreasonable? The dissent on this one is cogent, worth reading.

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WLJ

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Re: SCOTUS sides with prayers on the high school football field
« Reply #26 on: June 28, 2022, 12:02:42 AM »
I would be careful using the words of the dissent in this case. The people who dissented in this case imagine the bill of rights calls for the "separation of church and state" somewhere (hint: it doesn't) and thinks "shall not be infringed" is just some silly suggestion about hunting with muskets and the right to on demand abortion in there some where.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: SCOTUS sides with prayers on the high school football field
« Reply #27 on: June 28, 2022, 12:04:38 AM »
Don't say pray.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: SCOTUS sides with prayers on the high school football field
« Reply #28 on: June 28, 2022, 12:41:01 AM »
In this case, I don't see it as doing this on work time.  This is after the school event is over. 

No.

I'm on the coach's side in this but, having played three sports through high school, I know the coach is not off-duty the moment the clock runs out on the game. If it's a home game, he's on duty until the last player has showered, dressed in his street clothes, and been picked up by his parents or has gotten into his POV and left the school grounds. If it's an away game, he's on duty for the bus ride home, and THEN until the last player has showered, dressed in his street clothes, and been picked up by his parents or has gotten into his POV and left the school grounds.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: SCOTUS sides with prayers on the high school football field
« Reply #29 on: June 28, 2022, 12:41:33 AM »
Don't say pray.

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De Selby

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Re: SCOTUS sides with prayers on the high school football field
« Reply #30 on: June 28, 2022, 01:33:32 AM »
I would be careful using the words of the dissent in this case. The people who dissented in this case imagine the bill of rights calls for the "separation of church and state" somewhere (hint: it doesn't) and thinks "shall not be infringed" is just some silly suggestion about hunting with muskets and the right to on demand abortion in there some where.

Separation of church and state is precisely what the framers of the constitution sought to achieve. The “freedom of not freedom from” line is distinctly modern.
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

WLJ

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Re: SCOTUS sides with prayers on the high school football field
« Reply #31 on: June 28, 2022, 08:13:23 AM »
Separation of church and state is precisely what the framers of the constitution sought to achieve. The “freedom of not freedom from” line is distinctly modern.

Avoiding a national government run church something along the line of The Church of England was what they were trying ti avoid not remove religion completely from government. Read the 1st carefully.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: SCOTUS sides with prayers on the high school football field
« Reply #32 on: June 28, 2022, 08:15:50 AM »
Separation of church and state is precisely what the framers of the constitution sought to achieve. The “freedom of not freedom from” line is distinctly modern.

Even assuming you are correct in this statement (which I do not accept), how is a high school football coach praying after a game in any way the establishment of a religion by the government?
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Strings

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Re: SCOTUS sides with prayers on the high school football field
« Reply #33 on: June 28, 2022, 11:19:56 AM »
I seem to recall when this whole thing started, the concern was students feeling coerced into joining by peer pressure. Which I agree is a bad thing, just not sure it rises to the level of a Civil Rights violation
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MillCreek

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Re: SCOTUS sides with prayers on the high school football field
« Reply #34 on: June 28, 2022, 11:31:40 AM »
I seem to recall when this whole thing started, the concern was students feeling coerced into joining by peer pressure. Which I agree is a bad thing, just not sure it rises to the level of a Civil Rights violation

You are correct.  At the time, there were articles in the Bremerton and other local media about students who felt coerced into participating due to peer pressure or concern that the coach would not give them playing time.
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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
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WLJ

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Re: SCOTUS sides with prayers on the high school football field
« Reply #35 on: June 28, 2022, 11:37:55 AM »
You are correct.  At the time, there were articles in the Bremerton and other local media about students who felt coerced into participating due to peer pressure or concern that the coach would not give them playing time.

And we all know the media never massages a story to insert their opinions and ideology into it

Jemele Hill straight-up lies about SCOTUS’ Kennedy decision upholding First Amendment rights because of course she does
https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/06/27/jemele-hill-straight-up-lies-about-scotus-kennedy-decision-upholding-first-amendment-rights-because-of-course-she-does/

And in another story https://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=66852.0.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2022, 11:53:13 AM by WLJ »
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MillCreek

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Re: SCOTUS sides with prayers on the high school football field
« Reply #36 on: June 29, 2022, 11:25:10 AM »
And we all know the media never massages a story to insert their opinions and ideology into it

In that case, you probably won't like this story either, since it is consistent with earlier reporting on the facts of the matter.   https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/the-myth-at-the-heart-of-the-praying-bremerton-coach-case/
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Regards,
MillCreek
Snohomish County, WA  USA


Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

WLJ

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Re: SCOTUS sides with prayers on the high school football field
« Reply #37 on: June 29, 2022, 11:26:02 AM »
In that case, you probably won't like this story either, since it is consistent with earlier reporting on the facts of the matter.   https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/the-myth-at-the-heart-of-the-praying-bremerton-coach-case/

Seattle Times  :rofl:
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MillCreek

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Re: SCOTUS sides with prayers on the high school football field
« Reply #38 on: June 29, 2022, 12:16:19 PM »
Seattle Times  :rofl:

You are 2400 miles away from any local print or electronic media coverage of this event over the past several years.  I would love to see your media coverage cites as to how no students felt coerced or pressured into participating, since you feel the local media is incorrect or biased.
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MillCreek
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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

Ben

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Re: SCOTUS sides with prayers on the high school football field
« Reply #39 on: June 29, 2022, 12:26:37 PM »
You are 2400 miles away from any local print or electronic media coverage of this event over the past several years.  I would love to see your media coverage cites as to how no students felt coerced or pressured into participating, since you feel the local media is incorrect or biased.

Seattle Times is owned 50% by McClatchy, just like the Idaho Statesman is owned 100% by McClatchy and writes whatever McClatchy tells them to. There are no longer any large local news sources in the US.

https://youtu.be/ZggCipbiHwE

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MillCreek

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Re: SCOTUS sides with prayers on the high school football field
« Reply #40 on: June 29, 2022, 12:38:18 PM »
Seattle Times is owned 50% by McClatchy, just like the Idaho Statesman is owned 100% by McClatchy and writes whatever McClatchy tells them to. There are no longer any large local news sources in the US.

https://youtu.be/ZggCipbiHwE

Do you have the same concerns about the Epoch Times taking their direction from Falun Gong?
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MillCreek
Snohomish County, WA  USA


Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

WLJ

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Re: SCOTUS sides with prayers on the high school football field
« Reply #41 on: June 29, 2022, 12:40:28 PM »
Seattle Times is owned 50% by McClatchy, just like the Idaho Statesman is owned 100% by McClatchy and writes whatever McClatchy tells them to. There are no longer any large local news sources in the US.

https://youtu.be/ZggCipbiHwE

And many if not most of them just carbon copy AP articles or lift info from them on stories outside their local
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cordex

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Re: SCOTUS sides with prayers on the high school football field
« Reply #42 on: June 29, 2022, 12:42:37 PM »
I would love to see your media coverage cites as to how no students felt coerced or pressured into participating, since you feel the local media is incorrect or biased.
To be fair, the article you posted didn't indicate that any student felt coerced or pressured.  In fact, the only quote I saw from a student was this:
Quote
Here’s how a former player at Bremerton High School described that homecoming game in a brief to the court:

“To this day, I don’t remember who we played or if we even won. … All I remember is the aftermath of that game” in which there were “over 500 people storm[ing] the football field … from both sides, hopping the fences and rushing to the field to be close to Kennedy before he started his prayer.”
Maybe some of those 500 people storming the field to be with him were coerced or pressured, but I didn't see that reported.  Do you know if there were students who actually complained, or was the concern that they just felt bad or compelled and didn't say anything?

I'm entirely ignorant about this guy, and I'm open to the idea that he was wrong, misguided, or even malicious, but to me it so far looks a little bit like when the Supreme Court rejected a case a couple years ago where a student complained about having to fill in the missing parts of the shahada as part of a class that discussed Islam.  The student complained that filling in the blanks of the conversion prayer was being forced to perform an Islamic rite.  That was a silly lawsuit, as is the complaint that about this guy praying ... especially if there weren't any students who were bothered enough to actually say something.

Ben

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Re: SCOTUS sides with prayers on the high school football field
« Reply #43 on: June 29, 2022, 01:11:14 PM »
Do you have the same concerns about the Epoch Times taking their direction from Falun Gong?

No, since I have posted numerous times, it's easy to recognize ET bias. It's pretty much all regarding the CCP. Also, they don't bill themselves as a "local" news source as if they were my neighbor.
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Ben

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Re: SCOTUS sides with prayers on the high school football field
« Reply #44 on: June 29, 2022, 01:13:56 PM »
And many if not most of them just carbon copy AP articles or lift info from them on stories outside their local

Yup. I read four different "local" news sources every morning, basically the websites of the local TV stations, and more than half their articles say (AP).
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."