Author Topic: Knife attack in Sydney  (Read 771 times)

JN01

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Re: Knife attack in Sydney
« Reply #50 on: April 16, 2024, 12:07:28 AM »


As dogmush said, choice of weapon, or availability of various options, means fuckalll to likelihood of them happening or even ultimate body count.  The worst one use usa history I'm aware of the perps used box cutters and airplanes.  Excluding Islamic terrorists, the Bath school massacre used explosives, not guns.  There have also been a number of knife attacks in China that killed more than most AR attacks in the USA.

1995 Oklahoma City bombing, 168 killed, 680 injured
1990 Happyland nightclub in NYC, 87 killed using a small can of gas
2016 Nice, France, truck driver plowed into crowd, 86 killed, 458 injured

sumpnz

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Re: Knife attack in Sydney
« Reply #51 on: April 16, 2024, 12:28:47 AM »
1995 Oklahoma City bombing, 168 killed, 680 injured
1990 Happyland nightclub in NYC, 87 killed using a small can of gas
2016 Nice, France, truck driver plowed into crowd, 86 killed, 458 injured

Yup.  ARs aren't nearly as effective and explosives, incendiaries, or vehicles.

WLJ

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Re: Knife attack in Sydney
« Reply #52 on: April 16, 2024, 08:13:04 AM »
Bath School disaster, the worse school attack in US history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster
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WLJ

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Re: Knife attack in Sydney
« Reply #53 on: April 16, 2024, 08:43:04 AM »
Meanwhile

Quote
Terrified parents have fled a Melbourne shopping centre with their children after a bloody fight broke out between a group of machete-wielding youths.

The group clashed inside the Woodgrove Shopping Centre at Melton in Melbourne's north-west at about 5pm on Monday.

Witnesses claim those involved, who were described as teenagers and Sudanese, were armed with a variety of weapons and were seen waving knives and throwing chairs during the melee.

One woman said she fled the centre with her children after spotting a man 'waving a machete around'.
Quote
The 16-year-old has been charged with affray, possessing a prohibited weapon and being armed with criminal intent. He is set to face a children's court on Tuesday afternoon.

Police will charge the 15-year-old with affray, possessing a controlled weapon and being armed with criminal intent and then will be directly presented to a children’s court.

Woodgrove shopping centre, Melton: Families flee machete-wielding mob as savage gang fight erupts at suburban shopping centre in fresh outbreak of terrifying violence
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13312579/Woodgrove-shopping-centre-Melton-terrified-mothers-children-flee-mall-machete-wielding-men-bloody-brawl-Westfield-Bondi-Junction-tragedy.html
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WLJ

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Re: Knife attack in Sydney
« Reply #54 on: April 16, 2024, 08:44:38 AM »
And more on the church stabbing

Quote
An Assyrian Orthodox Church bishop who was stabbed during a livestreamed church service in Sydney had spoken critically about Islam in a video recorded four months ago.

Bishop Mar Mari Emmanuel was preaching at Christ The Good Shepherd Church in Wakeley in Sydney's west just after 7pm on Monday when a 16-year-old boy walked up to the altar and allegedly stabbed him multiple times.

On a separate video of the aftermath of the alleged terror attack, the boy said in Arabic 'If they didn't insult my prophet, I wouldn't have come here. If he didn't involve himself in my religion, I would not have come here.'

Churchgoers said he also used the Islamic phrase 'Allahu Akbar' repeatedly.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13312597/Sydney-church-stabbing-wakeley-bishop-mar-mari-islam.html
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dogmush

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Re: Knife attack in Sydney
« Reply #55 on: April 16, 2024, 08:54:09 AM »
Yeah, mass casualty events happen at a lower rate for sure. 30 percent of Australians were born overseas, so I’m not sure what you mean by “homogenous” - it’s the democratic institution and government support that seems to keep people relatively well off that I see, not any mysterious features of the culture which is hugely impacted by immigration, much much more so than in the USA.


I said it was a mostly homogenous, high trust culture.  Those Australians that are born overseas but choose to stay and live there adapt to and adopt that culture to a high degree.  You yourself are a prime example, but during my visits I ran into this multiple times across folks of varying ethnicities and religions.  The overwhelmingly accepted culture of Australia leads to less of the tribalism and violence that many places in the world see to greater or lesser degrees.  There are certainly "out" groups in Australia.  Gangs exist, those Sudanese youths from the the story WLJ just posted, probably some Aboriginal groups, but in general, the culture of Australia is remarkably cohesive and homogenous.  Monocultures lead to decreased interpersonal violence almost everywhere they exist.  Japan and New Zealand have similar cultural traits with similar results.  Canada did, but are in the process of splitting into sub cultures.  China does as well, although the enforcement mechanism is *very* different.

JTHunter

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Re: Knife attack in Sydney
« Reply #56 on: April 16, 2024, 09:59:16 PM »
WLJ - in your post #53, your top quote has this line - "who were described as teenagers and Sudanese" - which explains the machetes.
Those are weapons of terrorism because the damage and blood-letting are of such a magnitude.  Also, from their origin countries, the Sudanese aren't likely to have access to firearms but machetes are easier to make and more available.
They are also quieter than guns.
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De Selby

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Re: Knife attack in Sydney
« Reply #57 on: April 16, 2024, 10:32:25 PM »
I said it was a mostly homogenous, high trust culture.  Those Australians that are born overseas but choose to stay and live there adapt to and adopt that culture to a high degree.  You yourself are a prime example, but during my visits I ran into this multiple times across folks of varying ethnicities and religions.  The overwhelmingly accepted culture of Australia leads to less of the tribalism and violence that many places in the world see to greater or lesser degrees.  There are certainly "out" groups in Australia.  Gangs exist, those Sudanese youths from the the story WLJ just posted, probably some Aboriginal groups, but in general, the culture of Australia is remarkably cohesive and homogenous.  Monocultures lead to decreased interpersonal violence almost everywhere they exist.  Japan and New Zealand have similar cultural traits with similar results.  Canada did, but are in the process of splitting into sub cultures.  China does as well, although the enforcement mechanism is *very* different.


So you think everyone decides to behave more peacefully by magic? Or just because some other people did first? Again, that’s 30 percent foreign born. Unless you mean something different by “culture” than what most dictionaries call it, it is absolutely not homogenous.

What you observed on your visits and what I see living here isn’t homogenous beliefs, it’s a relatively across all populations lower level of stress. The reasons for that are institutional, there isn’t anything in the water that just magically makes people from all over the world more chill here. If there is anything approaching a cultural cause it is that trade unions achieved extremely high membership and thereby shaped voting and social service institutions. Australia has that in common with Scandinavian countries. But that’s not a product of some esoteric “trust” or magic personal qualities of its people in either place.
 
If the United States had similarly robust democratic processes, social safety nets, relatively high wages and good job security, it would have the same “homogenous” low levels of stress. Given the gigantic amount of wealth there overall to be honest it could outdo Scandinavia. It’s just that for political reasons, you all choose not to live in that kind of society.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2024, 12:14:51 AM by De Selby »
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De Selby

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Re: Knife attack in Sydney
« Reply #58 on: April 16, 2024, 10:35:52 PM »
Meanwhile

Woodgrove shopping centre, Melton: Families flee machete-wielding mob as savage gang fight erupts at suburban shopping centre in fresh outbreak of terrifying violence
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13312579/Woodgrove-shopping-centre-Melton-terrified-mothers-children-flee-mall-machete-wielding-men-bloody-brawl-Westfield-Bondi-Junction-tragedy.html

Not sure if serious. If it’s a contest of posting horror stories of crime to prove which country is more violent, you need only scan your state’s papers to see where that one is going to land.
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

WLJ

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Re: Knife attack in Sydney
« Reply #59 on: April 16, 2024, 10:55:58 PM »
Not sure if serious. If it’s a contest of posting horror stories of crime to prove which country is more violent, you need only scan your state’s papers to see where that one is going to land.

The US is more violent? Huh, I didn't know that. Glad you're here to point that out. I wish the media would tell us these things.
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De Selby

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Re: Knife attack in Sydney
« Reply #60 on: April 17, 2024, 12:13:04 AM »
The US is more violent? Huh, I didn't know that. Glad you're here to point that out. I wish the media would tell us these things.

Weren’t you the guy posting media articles about crime? What was the point you were trying to make?
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

sumpnz

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Re: Knife attack in Sydney
« Reply #61 on: April 17, 2024, 01:00:40 AM »
Weren’t you the guy posting media articles about crime? What was the point you were trying to make?

We'd ask the same about you.

De Selby

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Re: Knife attack in Sydney
« Reply #62 on: April 17, 2024, 01:05:19 AM »
We'd ask the same about you.

1. That it discredits gun rights advocates to pretend it would’ve been no different if this guy were able to buy a rapid fire rifle and use that instead of knives;

2. That the generally lower rate of these incidents in Australia and other countries isn’t entirely to do with restrictions on weapons; high barriers to accessing health care and general life stressors are a cause as well.
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

WLJ

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Re: Knife attack in Sydney
« Reply #63 on: April 17, 2024, 07:11:31 AM »
Weren’t you the guy posting media articles about crime? What was the point you were trying to make?

Do you view everything as some sort of political argument to be fought over? Maybe sometimes news is news.
Anyway
If I did have pick a point maybe that there are crazy people everywhere not just in the US and IF there was a political point maybe the one that nothing seems to be being done about them making all of us suffer. At first I was wondering if there could have been a Gaza protest connection (understandable speculation at this time IMHO) but have seen no evidence of one so far.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2024, 07:41:30 AM by WLJ »
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dogmush

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Re: Knife attack in Sydney
« Reply #64 on: April 17, 2024, 09:01:21 AM »

So you think everyone decides to behave more peacefully by magic? Or just because some other people did first? Again, that’s 30 percent foreign born. Unless you mean something different by “culture” than what most dictionaries call it, it is absolutely not homogenous.
I don't "believe" anything.  I'm stating an objective fact.  Monocultures tend to have less interpersonal violence among members of the community.  Australia proactively vets incoming migrants to encourage them to internalize and adopt Austalian culture.  A person can adopt a new culture as their life changes, you know that right?  30% of people born overseas implies racial diversity, nut cultural. 

Culture in an individual can be fluid.  The prime example there is the early 20th century American immigrants who took pains to assimilate into American culture, in some cases even changing their names, and raise their children as Americans. 

What you observed on your visits and what I see living here isn’t homogenous beliefs, it’s a relatively across all populations lower level of stress. The reasons for that are institutional, there isn’t anything in the water that just magically makes people from all over the world more chill here. If there is anything approaching a cultural cause it is that trade unions achieved extremely high membership and thereby shaped voting and social service institutions. Australia has that in common with Scandinavian countries. But that’s not a product of some esoteric “trust” or magic personal qualities of its people in either place.
 
If the United States had similarly robust democratic processes, social safety nets, relatively high wages and good job security, it would have the same “homogenous” low levels of stress. Given the gigantic amount of wealth there overall to be honest it could outdo Scandinavia. It’s just that for political reasons, you all choose not to live in that kind of society.

Unfortunately for your rambling hypothesis, it's counter-factual.  Australians do not report significantly less stress than Americans.  Actually probably slightly more.  Australians report in the 35%-38% range for Significant Anxiety, Distress and Depression.  Americans report only 24% as significantly stressed.

Of the stressors, they are remarkably similar between our countries:  Finances/Money, Health issues, family issues, and workplace stress rank at the top.  (Although in the 2023 American stress survey "The Economy" edged out Family Issues here.  I guess we don't believe the messaging that Bidenomics is awesome.   >:D )

These numbers are based in "soft science" so I wouldn't take them as the holy writ, but they certainly don't show a trend of less stress, and specifically less stress about health, mental health and employment in Oz vs. the US.  That's not the cause of Australia's relatively low violence rate.

WLJ

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Re: Knife attack in Sydney
« Reply #65 on: April 17, 2024, 09:36:14 AM »

If the United States had similarly robust democratic processes, social safety nets, relatively high wages and good job security, it would have the same “homogenous” low levels of stress. Given the gigantic amount of wealth there overall to be honest it could outdo Scandinavia. It’s just that for political reasons, you all choose not to live in that kind of society.

And yet Scandinavian counties have a suicide rate equal to or greater than the US depending on which one you look at.

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
- Calvin and Hobbes