Author Topic: Mar-A-Lago raided and occupied by FBI  (Read 16083 times)

HankB

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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided and occupied by FBI
« Reply #300 on: August 28, 2022, 08:40:31 AM »
I still find it instructive that the .gov has its collective knickers in a twist over some boxes of paper in a closet at Trump's private residence, where nobody had access to them ... but that same .gov hasn't done anything about the fact that Hilary Clinton (who did NOT have final classification/declassification authority) had classified documents on her unsecured, personal server in her home, where hackers from all over the world had access to them.
Mar-A-Lago had a TS/SCI facility built when Trump became POTUS, and of course, Mar-A-Lago (at least the POTUS' residence portion) still has round-th-clock Secret Service protection, too. I'm pretty sure if I tried to clandestinely or forcibly access the documents I'd be sitting in a jail cell right now . . . assuming I even survived the attempt.
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
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kgbsquirrel

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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided and occupied by FBI
« Reply #301 on: August 28, 2022, 08:42:18 AM »
Mar-A-Lago had a TS/SCI facility built when Trump became POTUS, and of course, Mar-A-Lago (at least the POTUS' residence portion) still has round-th-clock Secret Service protection, too. I'm pretty sure if I tried to clandestinely or forcibly access the documents I'd be sitting in a jail cell right now . . . assuming I even survived the attempt.

Why bother with the cost?  I hear closets and bathrooms are basically SCIFs as they are.  [popcorn]

HankB

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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided and occupied by FBI
« Reply #302 on: August 28, 2022, 04:06:28 PM »
Why bother with the cost?  I hear closets and bathrooms are basically SCIFs as they are.  [popcorn]
They're good enough for servers, for sure.
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. - Mark Twain
Government is a broker in pillage, and every election is a sort of advance auction in stolen goods. - H.L. Mencken
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain

Ron

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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided and occupied by FBI
« Reply #303 on: August 28, 2022, 06:08:49 PM »
Those wiley FBI agents will catch that Trump yet!
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

WLJ

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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided and occupied by FBI
« Reply #304 on: August 28, 2022, 06:19:39 PM »
Those wiley FBI agents will catch that Trump yet!

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DittoHead

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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided and occupied by FBI
« Reply #305 on: August 29, 2022, 09:12:34 AM »
It it these documents the FBI is so upset about?
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia/trump-says-he-has-declassified-documents-related-to-russia-clinton-email-probes-idUSKBN26S030
I think the FBI has been ignoring or fighting Trump's order to declassify all the documents related to the Russia nonsense and the probe into Clinton's email stuff. I don't recall them ever being released. Perhaps they are worried he has copies of these documents and would release them?

Sorry you fell for it, but Trump just says whatever he wants on Twitter (or "Truth") and doesn't actually mean it.
The president indicated to me that his statements on Twitter were not self-executing declassification orders, and do not required the declassification or release of any particular documents
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Angel Eyes

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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided and occupied by FBI
« Reply #306 on: August 29, 2022, 12:25:56 PM »

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MikeB

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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided and occupied by FBI
« Reply #307 on: August 29, 2022, 12:28:43 PM »
Sorry you fell for it, but Trump just says whatever he wants on Twitter (or "Truth") and doesn't actually mean it.

Fell for what? I posted a link so people would know what I was referring to. The link isn't fake, it's from Reuters. The link you posted shows that Trump intended to declassify all the documents. You can quibble about redactions. I never said a word about redactions. Were the documents actually released? I don't believe they were, but could be wrong hence the question in my post. Maybe try having a discussion instead of assuming you know what someone else is thinking and trying to insult them.

DittoHead

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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided and occupied by FBI
« Reply #308 on: August 29, 2022, 01:12:33 PM »
Fell for what?
Trump saying one thing on social media and then the opposite behind the scenes.
Were the documents actually released? I don't believe they were, but could be wrong hence the question in my post.
The documents weren't released because the Trump admin argued in court (where it counts) that that his "orders" on Twitter were basically meaningless.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2022, 01:25:09 PM by DittoHead »
In the moral, catatonic stupor America finds itself in today it is only disagreement we seek, and the more virulent that disagreement, the better.

MikeB

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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided and occupied by FBI
« Reply #309 on: August 29, 2022, 01:47:12 PM »
Trump saying one thing on social media and then the opposite behind the scenes. The documents weren't released because the Trump admin argued in court (where it counts) that that his "orders" on Twitter were basically meaningless.

The document says he gave the attorney general the power to release them. He intended them to be released. Yah know what, it isn’t worth it. I think there is an ignore feature. First time time I ever felt the need to use it. It’s obvious you are more interested in being confrontational and condescending than having a conversation.

MechAg94

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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided and occupied by FBI
« Reply #310 on: August 29, 2022, 03:38:02 PM »
Trump saying one thing on social media and then the opposite behind the scenes. The documents weren't released because the Trump admin argued in court (where it counts) that that his "orders" on Twitter were basically meaningless.

Most all the comments I see are just speculation as none of us were there.  At this point, I don't think the FBI is any more worthy of trust than Trump's twitter account. 

IMO, if there was hard evidence in the documents seized, they likely would have already been leaked.  Now it is just lawyers arguing in court over classification/declassification details. 
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Ben

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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided and occupied by FBI
« Reply #311 on: August 29, 2022, 03:52:45 PM »
IMO, if there was hard evidence in the documents seized, they likely would have already been leaked. 

This is where I am with pretty much anything the FBI (or ATF or DOJ, etc.) do and say as of now, for anything, not just Trump. If they had irrefutable evidence, they would have presented it instead of playing redaction games or, "We can't release "X" concrete evidence due to security, judicial process, or any other lame excuse we can come up with, but here's oodles of circumstantial stuff that just causes more questions."

I'm getting tired of, "We can't release the primary evidence, but here's some unrelated stuff to rile everybody up."
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WLJ

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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided and occupied by FBI
« Reply #312 on: August 29, 2022, 03:53:38 PM »
Where's the beef?
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bedlamite

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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided and occupied by FBI
« Reply #314 on: August 29, 2022, 08:57:02 PM »
 :rofl:
 :rofl:
 :rofl:
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Ron

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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided and occupied by FBI
« Reply #315 on: August 29, 2022, 09:19:14 PM »
The document says he gave the attorney general the power to release them. He intended them to be released. Yah know what, it isn’t worth it. I think there is an ignore feature. First time time I ever felt the need to use it. It’s obvious you are more interested in being confrontational and condescending than having a conversation.
He says he writes for the Bulwork since 2019. He is one of William Kristols neocon bois. When you see nations burning all around you it's their policies reaching their natural conclusions. Looking at how they wrecked the Republican party I would say that was probably the mission all along.
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

DittoHead

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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided and occupied by FBI
« Reply #316 on: August 30, 2022, 08:22:39 AM »
He says he writes for the Bulwork since 2019. He is one of William Kristols neocon bois. When you see nations burning all around you it's their policies reaching their natural conclusions. Looking at how they wrecked the Republican party I would say that was probably the mission all along.
You're being too confrontational and condescending!! Where's that ignore feature?:police:
You also overestimate my influence by just a little bit I think. It's really my partners, the lizard people, that deserve most of the credit.
In the moral, catatonic stupor America finds itself in today it is only disagreement we seek, and the more virulent that disagreement, the better.

Ben

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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided and occupied by FBI
« Reply #317 on: August 30, 2022, 08:29:16 AM »
He says he writes for the Bulwork since 2019.

In fairness, I think that might be in his profile because in a 2019 thread where we disagreed on some topic, I was being a smartass and asked him if he wrote for the Bulwark.
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DittoHead

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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided and occupied by FBI
« Reply #318 on: August 30, 2022, 08:37:01 AM »
In fairness, I think that might be in his profile because in a 2019 thread where we disagreed on some topic, I was being a smartass and asked him if he wrote for the Bulwark.

Ben is correct. =)
In the moral, catatonic stupor America finds itself in today it is only disagreement we seek, and the more virulent that disagreement, the better.

Ron

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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided and occupied by FBI
« Reply #319 on: August 30, 2022, 08:39:19 AM »
You're being too confrontational and condescending!! Where's that ignore feature?:police:
You also overestimate my influence by just a little bit I think. It's really my partners, the lizard people, that deserve most of the credit.
Hello I'm Ron, I spend my time screaming into the void, banging my head against the wall and arguing politics online.
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

RocketMan

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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided and occupied by FBI
« Reply #320 on: August 30, 2022, 09:11:13 AM »
Hello I'm Ron, I spend my time screaming into the void, banging my head against the wall and arguing politics online.

It's funny how we all have a similar profile on APS.  ;)
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DittoHead

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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided and occupied by FBI
« Reply #321 on: August 31, 2022, 11:27:46 AM »
they took THREE Trump passports -- his current one, and two expired ones. Supposedly those have since been returned, but what possible justification could they possibly have for taking them in the first place?
They mentioned the passports in the latest filing:
Plaintiff repeatedly claims that his passports were outside the scope of the warrant and improperly seized, and that the government, in returning them, has admitted as much. See D.E. 1 at 2 & n.2; D.E. 28 at 3, 8, 9. These claims are incorrect. Consistent with Attachment B to the search warrant, the government seized the contents of a desk drawer that contained classified documents and governmental records commingled with other documents. The other documents included two official passports, one of which was expired, and one personal passport, which was expired. The location of the passports is relevant evidence in an investigation of unauthorized retention and mishandling of national defense information; nonetheless, the government decided to return those passports in its discretion.

It also makes note that no indication was made about the supposed declassification:
Quote
These communications ultimately resulted in the provision of fifteen boxes (hereinafter, the “Fifteen Boxes”) from former President Trump to NARA in January 2022 When producing the Fifteen Boxes, the former President never asserted executive privilege over any of the documents nor claimed that any of the documents in the boxes containing classification markings had been declassified.
...
On June 3, 2022, three FBI agents and a DOJ attorney arrived at the Premises to accept receipt of the materials. In addition to counsel for the former President, another individual was also present as the custodian of records for the former President’s post-presidential office. When producing the documents, neither counsel nor the custodian asserted that the former President had declassified the documents or asserted any claim of executive privilege. Instead, counsel handled them in a manner that suggested counsel believed that the documents were classified: the production included a single Redweld envelope, double-wrapped in tape, containing the documents.
I have the same question as before - If Trump really did declassify all these documents why didn't he ever say so in the months of back forth between NARA/DOJ/himself & his lawyers? If he declassified them in the interest of transparency, why didn't he ever release any of them?
In the moral, catatonic stupor America finds itself in today it is only disagreement we seek, and the more virulent that disagreement, the better.

MechAg94

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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided and occupied by FBI
« Reply #322 on: August 31, 2022, 12:48:15 PM »
Why do you assume the Justice Dept isn't omitting facts that don't help their case? 


Why did they lie and say the White House found out about the raid on twitter?  (that was the press people, not the lawyers.  The changing narrative on this is odd.) 


I heard there was some law that had a provision about barring someone from running for office if they violate classified document laws.  I don't remember the exact wording mentioned, but that was speculated as a reason for pursuing the issue. 
« Last Edit: August 31, 2022, 04:14:50 PM by MechAg94 »
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MikeB

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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided and occupied by FBI
« Reply #323 on: August 31, 2022, 04:24:42 PM »

I heard there was some law that had a provision about barring someone from running for office if they violate classified document laws.  I don't remember the exact wording mentioned, but that was speculated as a reason for pursuing the issue.

There has been talk by pundits about that, I don't recall exactly who, but I've heard it a few times. Mark Levin may have mentioned it. I usually don't listen to him, but sometimes catch a few minutes since he is one the same AM station I sometime listen to in the car. I think maybe Alan Dershowitz may have been on a TV segment I caught saying the same. Many of those pundits say the law wouldn't likely pass constitutional muster since election requirements to be eligible for the office of president are rather explicit in the constitution. They say this law can't override that.

DittoHead

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Re: Mar-A-Lago raided and occupied by FBI
« Reply #324 on: August 31, 2022, 05:14:44 PM »
Why do you assume the Justice Dept isn't omitting facts that don't help their case? 
It's pretty clear that all the facts aren't available yet. However, to their credit, the DOJ did include the letter from Trump's lawyer preemptively making the case against a warrant as an attachment to the warrant affidavit.

Why did they lie and say the White House found out about the raid on twitter?  (that was the press people, not the lawyers.  The changing narrative on this is odd.)
Because they are liars and that's what liars tend to do. Unfortunately, in modern politics there doesn't seem to be a significant penalty for lying to the media. Hypocrisy either for that matter. The Trump admin seemed to find it funny to lie to the fake news, and then call them on their lies. I think the Biden admin often just lies to get them off their back for a bit, telling them what they think the "best" answer is so can they be done talking. While the Trump admin had outright disdain for the press, the Biden admin seems to see them as an annoyance.
In the moral, catatonic stupor America finds itself in today it is only disagreement we seek, and the more virulent that disagreement, the better.