Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!

[RoadKingLarry]

It was weird when the Obama fans did it (and everyone here could see that), it's weird when the Trump fans do it - and they've taken it to a much higher level.

It started before Obama. Way back when John *expletive deleted*ing Kerry was running I was at a union meeting at the local hall.
One of the elected union officers approached me to by a Kerry campaign shirt. I politely declined, no commentary, no political statement, nothing more than a polite " No thank you"  The woman lost her *expletive deleted*ing mind. I really thought she was going to physically assault me because I declined to buy a shirt,  not for criticism of her chosen candidate. A couple other union members got her away from. Plenty of people backed up my story, nobody sided with crazy girl. For the sake of "keeping the peace" I was asked to leave.
Last time a set foot in the hall.

[Perd Hapley]

[lee n. field]

OK, finally watched the speech through to the end.  (Watching any political speech, even from someone I might like, is very hard for me.  I keep turning it off every few seconds.  Anyways...)

What blather.

Questions come to my mind.. Who thought this was a good idea?  (Not Joe.  He doesn't come across as all there.) Who's this for -- the target audience?  How many people were on site listening to this?   I didn't near much audience response.  If there's anything like a thinking Left, how are they reacting?

And, what I kept thinking (hearing Londo Molari's voice in my mind's ear) was "You're afraid, aren't you?   They're afraid."

"Them Magapublicans, they kidnap Christian babies and eat them in secret ceremonies!"

[Ron]

Donald Trump is a moderate left old school civic nationalist. Old school being 1980 for the fruit flies who don't even remember what 2018 was like let alone anything previous.

He is now called by everyone including establishment Republicans the apotheosis of everything fascist and hard core right.

It really is a joke.   

The neocons (neither new or conservative), the never Trumpers, the establishment Republican are all the same beast. They are leftist progressives as are the libertarians btw ("edited to add"  - more accurate than the label leftists they are actually post modernist nihilists). Many don't even have enough self awareness to realize it themselves. The others with awareness know exactly what they are and what they are doing.

If you aren't anchored to transcendent truth, the traditions of objective truth, then you are adrift.
The ratchet only clicks one way and Cthulhu only swims to the left.

[Perd Hapley]

"Them Magapublicans, they kidnap Christian babies and eat them in secret ceremonies!"

I thought we were kidnapping feminists, and forcing them to have babies (and lowering their taxes). Have I been doing it wrong?

[RoadKingLarry]

I thought we were kidnapping feminists, and forcing them to have babies (and lowering their taxes). Have I been doing it wrong?

Where do you think the babies for the buffet come from?

[kgbsquirrel]

Where do you think the babies for the buffet come from?

PlannedParenthood

[RoadKingLarry]

PlannedParenthood

That's for the BBQs.

[dogmush]

I guess those that want to keep Biden in office are now extremists.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/washington-secrets/most-want-biden-impeached-see-gop-dropping-ball

[WLJ]

Trump supporter gets shot and killed
Woman: Awesome!


I’ll just leave this here. #MAGA
https://twitter.com/scrowder/status/1567640173164302342?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1567640173164302342%7Ctwgr%5E4b0f1cc92104ee6b4d9d6248fc94f8b69bb5814c%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitchy.com%2Fsamj-3930%2F2022%2F09%2F08%2Fwho-they-really-are-portlanders-response-to-trump-supporter-being-shot-and-killed-is-jaw-droppingly-hateful-watch%2F

[AZRedhawk44]

I thought we were kidnapping feminists, and forcing them to have babies (and lowering their taxes). Have I been doing it wrong?

https://www.al.com/news/2022/09/pregnant-women-held-for-months-in-one-alabama-jail-to-protect-fetuses-from-drugs.html

Alabama police indefinitely detaining pregnant women, no trial, no bail.  The argument is that they are deliberately curtailing abortions.

Police arrested Ashley Banks on May 25 with a small amount of marijuana and a pistol without a permit to carry.

Under normal circumstances, the 23-year-old from Gadsden would have been able to post bond and leave jail until her criminal trial. But Banks admitted to smoking pot on the same day she found out she was pregnant – two days before her arrest. In Etowah County, that meant she couldn’t leave jail unless she entered drug rehab, leaving her in limbo for three months.

The neocons (neither new or conservative), the never Trumpers, the establishment Republican are all the same beast. They are leftist progressives as are the libertarians btw ("edited to add"  - more accurate than the label leftists they are actually post modernist nihilists). Many don't even have enough self awareness to realize it themselves. The others with awareness know exactly what they are and what they are doing.

If you aren't anchored to transcendent truth, the traditions of objective truth, then you are adrift.

I'd argue that libertarians are nihilists towards subjectivity.  They embrace the truest objective law there is:  If an individual has no power to do a thing, then neither has government.  Government is derived from consent and empowerment of the people, and those people are metaphysically and morally incapable of empowering a thing with power they do not themselves possess.  Just because they are nihilists towards your perceived right to impose on others, along with the Left's perceived right to impose on others in a different way, doesn't make them left progressive.

[Perd Hapley]

Trump supporter gets shot and killed
Woman: Awesome!


I’ll just leave this here. #MAGA
https://twitter.com/scrowder/status/1567640173164302342?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1567640173164302342%7Ctwgr%5E4b0f1cc92104ee6b4d9d6248fc94f8b69bb5814c%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitchy.com%2Fsamj-3930%2F2022%2F09%2F08%2Fwho-they-really-are-portlanders-response-to-trump-supporter-being-shot-and-killed-is-jaw-droppingly-hateful-watch%2F

Didn't someone on the Twitters laugh at a NASCAR fan being killed at the track, because they "probably" supported Trump?

[Ron]

I'd argue that libertarians are nihilists towards subjectivity.  They embrace the truest objective law there is:  If an individual has no power to do a thing, then neither has government.  Government is derived from consent and empowerment of the people, and those people are metaphysically and morally incapable of empowering a thing with power they do not themselves possess.  Just because they are nihilists towards your perceived right to impose on others, along with the Left's perceived right to impose on others in a different way, doesn't make them left progressive.

I argue that the end result is a moral hellscape and is utterly dys-civilizational. The whole LGBTQ+ confusion and the demanding access to children is fundamentally nihilist and libertine. It's libertarian to it's core.

That pointless and yes, subjective view of reality is what allows the exploitation of children for adult carnal desires. Exploitation by the actual physical abuse of minors. Or the programming, conditioning and grooming them to accept and/or join the ranks of the LGBTQ+ delusion.

When the perverts have gained control of the levers of power and are allowed to indoctrinate minors in their perversion under the cover of minor childrens rights and liberty to choose and the perverts rights and liberties to be accepted, any social contract that was holding civilization together has failed. This isn't some libertarian paradise but a hellscape. Nihilists have completely failed to show up and take a stand about how fundamentally wrong grooming children into accepting dysfunctional sexuality really is, crickets. Widespread dysfunctional families and sexuality is civilizational death. 

That this isn't obvious to everyone by now is a testament to the decades of psy-ops that have been perpetrated on the populace.  A culture of confusion, intellectually, morally and spiritually confused. It's actually antihuman.

 

[MechAg94]

I think the reaction to the grooming is still ramping up.  I have heard a number of school boards have been overturned in elections across Texas and Florida.  I have not seen numbers so I have no idea how widespread it is.  The Texas legislature goes into session in January so I figure some legislation about it will be debated.  However, liberal bastions such as Houston and Dallas will probably continue on along with leftist parts of other states.  So there will still be examples going around online.  Things can sometimes happen very fast in politics, but often changes take time.

[dogmush]

I argue that the end result is a moral hellscape and is utterly dys-civilizational. The whole LGBTQ+ confusion and the demanding access to children is fundamentally nihilist and libertine. It's libertarian to it's core.

That is an untrue statement. A philosophy that maximizes personal freedom doesn't require demanding access to others.

That pointless and yes, subjective view of reality is what allows the exploitation of children for adult carnal desires. Exploitation by the actual physical abuse of minors. Or the programming, conditioning and grooming them to accept and/or join the ranks of the LGBTQ+ delusion.

Libertarian politics does not require a subjective view of reality, or even morality. Certainly there are some libertarians that are also nihilists,  but there are also some that are strongly moral, and even strongly Christian.

[Ron]

That is an untrue statement. A philosophy that maximizes personal freedom doesn't require demanding access to others.
Libertarian politics does not require a subjective view of reality, or even morality. Certainly there are some libertarians that are also nihilists,  but there are also some that are strongly moral, and even strongly Christian.

I agree that there are Christian libertarians. I voted for Ron Paul in '88 myself. Subscribed to the FEE magazine and read it well into the 90's. Since then I've found libertarianism to be mostly incompatible with Christianity IF you take libertarianism to its logical conclusions. It's an ideology with a human being sized hole in it. It doesn't scale up to functioning civilization. It contains some truth(s) but it's a failure as a cultural and national ideology. In the realm of morality libertarians have shown to be incredibly naïve.

The arguments in favor of grooming minors by exposing them to sexual content in the media, the schools, in libraries etc. are all libertarian arguments of freedom. Freedom for the minors to escape parental authority and have autonomy as well as freedom for the perverts to have access to minors for recruitment, under the guise of "education", compassion and mentoring.
 

[Perd Hapley]

I think we should all have noticed by now that libertarianism seems to be whatever any self-professed libertarian says it is.

[AZRedhawk44]

The arguments in favor of grooming minors by exposing them to sexual content in the media, the schools, in libraries etc. are all libertarian arguments of freedom. Freedom for the minors to escape parental authority and have autonomy as well as freedom for the perverts to have access to minors for recruitment, under the guise of "education", compassion and mentoring.
 

Except schools as they exist today aren't libertarian at all.  They're antithetical to libertarianism. 

Libertarianism professes the extreme and utmost ownership of one's own progeny until they are acknowledged by their parents as being of majority; not deemed so by an arbitrary count of years and interference by a State power.  No other person may intrude on your standards of raising and educating your children, nor free them from your prescribed regimen.

Hell, even the existence of libraries is antithetical to libertarian doctrine if you boil it down.

[Ron]

Except schools as they exist today aren't libertarian at all.  They're antithetical to libertarianism. 

Libertarianism professes the extreme and utmost ownership of one's own progeny until they are acknowledged by their parents as being of majority; not deemed so by an arbitrary count of years and interference by a State power.  No other person may intrude on your standards of raising and educating your children, nor free them from your prescribed regimen.

Hell, even the existence of libraries is antithetical to libertarian doctrine if you boil it down.

Just read what you wrote. Libertarianism has some good explanatory power for some stuff and offers some better ways of doing some things but doesn't scale up to a functioning civilization. It's a utopian pipe dream that has a faulty view of humanity. You end up with degenerates bringing their children to watch male perverts pretending they're women pole dancing while dressed like demons. You end up with the most broken in society drugged out of their minds living on the streets. You end up with faceless, rapacious global corporations manipulating all of society to enrich those running and financing the companies to the detriment of society, you end up with the total collapse of family and cultural institutions all in the name of Muh Freedom!

This isn't all on libertarianism but libertarianism does nothing to halt the collapse and actually empowers it in the name of individual freedom. Individuals have actually become powerless in the face of the onslaught of phony liberty. Real freedom has been lost and exchanged for licentiousness.
Learn to code
Build your own institutions
You be you
Do your own thing
Let your freak flag fly
Love is love
Just be nice
There are dozens of supposed pro personal liberty pat answers that stopped good people from slowing the descent into chaos. The manipulators in society used the opium of phony personal freedom while enslaving the country in some dystopian system of global economic slavery. You will own nothing and eat the bugs.
Libertarianism has greatly contributed to the atomization of the people and leaves us looking around at the wreckage the wolves have left in their wake wondering wth happened? 
All in the name of fweedom!
Libertarianism has some good explanatory power in some limited domains but ultimately over promises and under delivers. Coming next "It's never really been tried by the right people!" Oh wait... isn't that what the commies always say?

We're not economic units and as the saying goes, no man is an island. Consumerism isn't a healthy replacement for a culture that pursues the transcendent virtuous, true and beautiful.

[dogmush]

You end up with degenerates bringing their children to watch male perverts pretending they're women pole dancing while dressed like demons. You end up with the most broken in society drugged out of their minds living on the streets. You end up with faceless, rapacious global corporations manipulating all of society to enrich those running and financing the companies to the detriment of society, you end up with the total collapse of family and cultural institutions all in the name of Muh Freedom!

We have all that now, without individual liberty.

And it's not like decades of Libertarian Party control has led to this point in American History.  Certainly small l libertarianism requires you to let people make bad choices and suffer those choices.  Druggies on the street being an obvious one.  Nothing in libertarian philosophy requires you to agree with those choices, enable those choices, or mentally stroke the people making bad choices off so they feel good and safe.

You also don't have to follow [any] political theory into the depths of reductio ad absurdum to think it'd be a good idea to mix some more of it's ideas into our stew.  Would Galt's Gulch work in real life? No, it's fictional and people sometimes act like aholes.  Is making "Smaller government and more individual responsibility" the default answer to a governmental question unless there's *very* compelling reason to add government?  In my view, Yes.  Especially since we are overburdened with government and lack of responsibility from our current "competing" political parties.

If we ever get the pendulum so far back towards individual liberty that the [admittedly real] issues that a strict, Randian political philosophy reear there heads, then we can talk about tempering the liberty a little.

[Ron]

Globalism, the deindustrialization of the USA rode into town using libertarianism as its Trojan Horse. Same with the LGBTQ+ insanity.

Not laying it all at our feet but I leaned hard into libertarianism and rejected Pat Buchannan back when he was sounding the alarm like an Old Testament prophet.

Turns out ol' Pat was right and I was catastrophically wrong.

[dogmush]

I would argue that that was the result of American Liberalism, which is most assuredly NOT Libertarianism.

The current state of LGBTQ+ started in the Sexual Revolution of the 60's, and those people were Socialists first and foremost.

I will agree that the political libertarians sided with the Liberals (and some other tiny parties) on many of the social issues in the 80's and 90's but I don't think libertarians ever had enough power, social or political, to get stuff left at their feet.

The current state of LGBTQ+ is strongly authoritarian, and most of the libertarians I know IRL are not fervent supporters of [critical drinker voice]The Message ^tm [/critical drinker voice]

[Ron]

I just remember the cog dis I felt as a Classical Liberal and born again Christian reading The Foundation for Economic Educations magazine. In hindsight I see now how they used the classic propaganda manipulation technique of pacing and leading on deindustrialization, globalism and LGBTQ+ issues. They were big among Classical Liberals, I wore that moniker for awhile myself and they were also popular among libertarians.

I know you guys hate when I say it but libertarianism has functioned as a stalking horse for the post modernist licentiousness we now call personal freedom, the "freedom" of the leftists. All the "good" parts of libertarianism were rejected and the foundationless personal autonomy, my body my rights part was elevated to primary importance along with globalism. It helped rot out the country from the inside morally and made us subjects to those who run global supply chains.

   

[Perd Hapley]

Ron, do you think the problems you're talking about are really problems with libertarianism, or are they problems with our culture? Our religious beliefs, or lack thereof?

Would it be fair to say that libertarianism may work as a political philosophy, but not as a personal belief system, or as a social order?

I guess I've approached it that way. Legally, I think you have a right to put heroin in your body if you decide to. Personally, morally, I would urge you not to. Legally, I think you have a right to be a sexual profligate. Personally, morally, I would urge you not to. I think we're expecting a political system to be a fully-inclusive guide to our own personal behavior. It's not really suited to that.

[cordex]

Ron, it seems to me that you're confusing limited platform overlap with a nefarious plan.

Couldn't a leftist equally say "those Libertarians come in here with their righteous positions about being in favor of killing babies, lack of borders, and legal dope, but that's just a Trojan horse to sneak in their abhorrent beliefs about allowing free speech and guns!"?