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Author Topic: Oregon State Police slow walking background checks for firearms  (Read 646 times)

kgbsquirrel

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Oregon State Police slow walking background checks for firearms
« on: September 16, 2022, 06:45:59 PM »

Pretty simple, I walked into a gun store today to take possession of a gun.  I have paid for it, and paid the transfer and background check fees (Oregon).

The electronic application for the "instant" criminal check is submitted.  And this is where I am told that I will have to wait a couple weeks as the OSP is "backlogged" by over 3,500 applications. 

I have not been denied or delayed, my background check simply has not been initiated yet and apparently will not be initiated for some time.

This clearly violates Oregon law which stipulates that the OSP has to respond immediately and provide a determination within 30 minutes.  If they do not the firearm is to be released 3 business days following.

The gun store is refusing to actually follow the state law for release after three days (I asked, and they told me to pound sand) due to "liability," aka OSP or the ATF will shut them down if they don't play along with the obstruction.

I've already left messages (and yeah, I don't expect responses from most of em) with OSP, the OSP FISC unit manager, my state senator and congresswoman, the OFF, and Steven Stamboulieh.  OFF already responded and the news from them is pretty grim; BLUF we have zero friends in any positions of power and it seems that the OSP is dragging their feet in the interest of some upcoming legislation.

https://oregon.public.law/statutes/ors_166.412
Quote
(3)(a) Upon receipt of a request of the gun dealer for a criminal history record check, the department shall immediately, during the gun dealer’s telephone call or by return call:
(A)Determine, from criminal records and other information available to it, whether the purchaser is disqualified under ORS 166.470 (Limitations and conditions for sales of firearms) from completing the purchase; and
(B)Notify the gun dealer when a purchaser is disqualified from completing the transfer or provide the gun dealer with a unique approval number indicating that the purchaser is qualified to complete the transfer.
(b)If the department is unable to determine if the purchaser is qualified or disqualified from completing the transfer within 30 minutes, the department shall notify the gun dealer and provide the gun dealer with an estimate of the time when the department will provide the requested information.
(c)If the department fails to provide a unique approval number to a gun dealer or to notify the gun dealer that the purchaser is disqualified under paragraph (a) of this subsection before the close of the gun dealer’s next business day following the request by the gun dealer for a criminal history record check, the gun dealer may deliver the firearm to the purchaser.

Ben

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Re: Oregon State Police slow walking background checks for firearms
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2022, 06:48:44 PM »

Man, that sucks. I was unaware that Oregon does (unless I'm reading wrong) a separate background check from NICS. How long has that been going on?
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kgbsquirrel

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Re: Oregon State Police slow walking background checks for firearms
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2022, 06:52:43 PM »

Man, that sucks. I was unaware that Oregon does (unless I'm reading wrong) a separate background check from NICS. How long has that been going on?

Forever it seems.

And in 2015 they banned private transfers, and now they're slow walking FFL transfers, and from what I hear they're going after everything via this:

https://ballotpedia.org/Oregon_Measure_114,_Changes_to_Firearm_Ownership_and_Purchase_Requirements_Initiative_(2022)

dogmush

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Re: Oregon State Police slow walking background checks for firearms
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2022, 06:53:47 PM »

Maybe reach out to Washington Gun Law on Youtube.  They would probably, at minimum, make some noise and cause the OSP some heartburn, and they might know a lawyer (or be a lawyer) licensed in Oregon that might want to throw a suit at it.

If you can get a couple folks to lawyer up and throw a suit at them they might pay attention.  They probably don't want to go through discovery on their emails over something like this.  There's also the old deprivation of civil rights under the color of law, which allows for damages against an individual, if you can pin this policy on someone.

HankB

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Re: Oregon State Police slow walking background checks for firearms
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2022, 09:13:21 PM »

. . .
The gun store is refusing to actually follow the state law for release after three days . . .
If you're sure this is truly a violation of the law in your state, file a police report, making a formal complaint. (Theft by swindle?) Don't forget to report them to the BBB.
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cordex

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Re: Oregon State Police slow walking background checks for firearms
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2022, 10:19:20 PM »

If you're sure this is truly a violation of the law in your state, file a police report, making a formal complaint. (Theft by swindle?) Don't forget to report them to the BBB.
It isn’t a violation.
May vs Shall.

kgbsquirrel

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Re: Oregon State Police slow walking background checks for firearms
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2022, 04:53:55 AM »

If you're sure this is truly a violation of the law in your state, file a police report, making a formal complaint. (Theft by swindle?) Don't forget to report them to the BBB.

The business is not in violation.  The OSP is violating the timeliness requirements and extorting the business into not exercising the protective law that exists to prevent this very thing; delays in the background check system depriving people of civil rights.

OSP has told gun stores they will be "liable" if they release a firearm after waiting the required time.

MillCreek

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Re: Oregon State Police slow walking background checks for firearms
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2022, 08:31:10 AM »

Huh. An example where Oregon is more sucky than Washington in terms of transfers.  At least here, the additional background check is done by your city police or county sheriff, not the state patrol or other state agency.  I am in the unincorporated county, and the sheriff is pretty good about completing the checks usually less than the ten day period provided by state law.  Theoretically, if the LGS does not hear back after ten days, they can release the firearm, but almost no LGS does so due to 'liability', which I suspect is actually a requirement of their insurance company.
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MillCreek
Snohomish County, WA  USA


Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
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Ben

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Re: Oregon State Police slow walking background checks for firearms
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2022, 08:39:57 AM »

Theoretically, if the LGS does not hear back after ten days, they can release the firearm, but almost no LGS does so due to 'liability', which I suspect is actually a requirement of their insurance company.

I find this to be a troubling and dangerous trend. Follow the law, and you're still "liable" for something yet to be named.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

MillCreek

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Re: Oregon State Police slow walking background checks for firearms
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2022, 11:45:25 AM »

We talk a lot about various laws and regulations as business constraints, but people would be surprised to hear how many business practices are the result of insurance requirements.  As a risk manager, I have been working in insurance and liability for almost 40 years now, and for some areas of business or professional practice, what is covered and what is not covered by your insurance is a prime factor in how you conduct your business or profession.
_____________
Regards,
MillCreek
Snohomish County, WA  USA


Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

Pb

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Re: Oregon State Police slow walking background checks for firearms
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2022, 04:56:43 PM »

Can you find a gun store that will release guns in a timely manner when the check is delayed?

Ben

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Re: Oregon State Police slow walking background checks for firearms
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2022, 05:06:34 PM »

Can you find a gun store that will release guns in a timely manner when the check is delayed?

That doesn't really help him get the current gun that he already paid for out of jail.
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sumpnz

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Re: Oregon State Police slow walking background checks for firearms
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2022, 12:40:20 AM »

Can you find a gun store that will release guns in a timely manner when the check is delayed?

If he went to Idaho, most likely yes.

JTHunter

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Re: Oregon State Police slow walking background checks for firearms
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2022, 10:55:07 PM »

This sounds very similar to what the IL-ANNOY state police are doing with both the FOID cards and the concealed carry permits.  Some people have waited as long as 15 months before they get their cards/permits.
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WLJ

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Re: Oregon State Police slow walking background checks for firearms
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2022, 09:14:54 AM »

It's a feature not a bug.
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lee n. field

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Re: Oregon State Police slow walking background checks for firearms
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2022, 09:47:53 AM »

This sounds very similar to what the IL-ANNOY state police are doing with both the FOID cards and the concealed carry permits.  Some people have waited as long as 15 months before they get their cards/permits.

Are they still?  Word I saw was that that was fixed. 
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kgbsquirrel

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Re: Oregon State Police slow walking background checks for firearms
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2022, 06:57:29 PM »

I am currently #23xx of 39xx people having their rights delayed.  The gun store continues to be cowed into not exercising the legal protections against this behavior being committed the OSP.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2022, 07:18:06 PM by kgbsquirrel »

BobR

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Re: Oregon State Police slow walking background checks for firearms
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2022, 07:11:57 PM »

What sucks here in NV is the private party transfer under the current law. A person has to go to the LGS, give them a nominal fee, usually 25 bucks, fill out the 4473 and wait until the lines at the state background check are able to be called and answered and you can then go get your gun.

If I go in and buy a gun at the LGS and show my CCW I get to take the gun with me right then.

Of course if you choose to not follow what many consider to be an unconstitutional law you can meet anywhere at anytime and exchange what ever you want for guns.

I feel for you guys in OR. It was much like living in eastern WA, still having to follow the laws mostly the result of the dipshits on the west side.

bob
« Last Edit: September 20, 2022, 07:32:44 PM by BobR »

kgbsquirrel

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Re: Oregon State Police slow walking background checks for firearms
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2022, 07:19:04 PM »

What sucks here in NV is the private party transfer under the current law. A person has to go to the LGS, give them a nonminal fee, usually 25 bucks, fill out the 4473 and wait until the lines at the state background check are able to be called and answered and you can then go get your gun. They W, it is that way.

If I go in and buy a gun at the LGS and show my CCW I get to take the gun with me right then.

Of course if you choose to not follow what many consider to be an unconstitutional law you can meet anywhere at anytime and exchange what ever you want for guns.

I feel for you guys in OR. It was much like living in eastern WA, still having to follow the laws mostly the result of the dipshits on the west side.

bob

That was instituted here in 2015.  As predicted, fuckery with the FFL background check system has commenced.

kgbsquirrel

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Re: Oregon State Police slow walking background checks for firearms
« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2022, 07:44:28 PM »

And today I am number 2724 out of 4124.

dogmush

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Re: Oregon State Police slow walking background checks for firearms
« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2022, 09:59:29 AM »

And today I am number 2724 out of 4124.

How did your number get higher?  Is there a cool people express lane that is getting in front of you?

Also, I reiterate: Sue them.  Might be class action at this point.

kgbsquirrel

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Re: Oregon State Police slow walking background checks for firearms
« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2022, 06:17:06 PM »

How did your number get higher?  Is there a cool people express lane that is getting in front of you?

Also, I reiterate: Sue them.  Might be class action at this point.

I probably misheard the hundreds when I called them that day and asked.  And speaking of, let me give them a ring today... #2466 of 4071.

ETA: and yes you can cut in line if you have a carry permit.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2022, 12:23:23 AM by kgbsquirrel »

kgbsquirrel

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Re: Oregon State Police slow walking background checks for firearms
« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2022, 06:52:23 PM »

State representatives office called me back.  Exchanged some information and they will be contacting the OSP and a follow up with myself.

Learned from them this "liability" thing is the insurance companies adding a stipulation that gun stores do not exercise the 3 day legal protection.  Questionable legality, certainly immoral and unethical.

kgbsquirrel

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Re: Oregon State Police slow walking background checks for firearms
« Reply #23 on: September 23, 2022, 06:54:24 PM »

#2,188 of 4,144

BobR

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Re: Oregon State Police slow walking background checks for firearms
« Reply #24 on: September 23, 2022, 10:14:37 PM »

At least my private party transfer went as well as could be expected for an oppressive unconstitutional law.

Met at 1100, had the 4473 done by 1105. Was told I was number nine of the next batch of ten to be called in. They can only clear 10 at a time per call. Got the text it was clear about 1430 and went and picked it up. Normally it can be a 2-3 day wait so I just plan on another trip to LV to pick things up.

As much as I hate doing the BG checks on a private party deal this time it was a gun I have been looking for and the price was very, very good. Sometimes you have to bend over and comply. :(

bob
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