Couple Tries Electric Truck and Had to Stop Every 100 Miles

[K Frame]

Class 8 BEVs require about 15,000lbs of batteries to make a realistic 400-500mi range.

For scale purposes, an entire Kenworth T680 diesel tractor with a mid-size sleeper weighs … 15,000 lbs.  The diesel drivetrain, fuel tanks, etc weight about 4000lbs.  Might be a little more than that but not much.

That 15,000 pounds is before cargo, correct?

So, with 40,000 pounds of cargo on board, that's a total weight of 55,000?

So, we'd be talking what, about 150 mile range?

[Fly320s]

That 15,000 pounds is before cargo, correct?

So, with 40,000 pounds of cargo on board, that's a total weight of 55,000?

So, we'd be talking what, about 150 mile range?

You might get 150 miles at low speeds, but once you hit the highway that range gets cut by two thirds.

[K Frame]

You might get 150 miles at low speeds, but once you hit the highway that range gets cut by two thirds.

Absolutely breathtaking how we're all going to be saved by the magical electron vehicles!

[Brad Johnson]

They would probably have been mad if a gas-powered truck that got 19mpg unloaded suddenly only got 9 or 10 when pulling a load. I used to be appalled at such nonsensical thinking but, sadly, it's become status quo.

Brad

[sumpnz]

Mill Creek - Our BEV and hydrogen fuel cell trucks are public knowledge.  So, yes.  There’s also work ongoing with natural gas for ICE energy.  Other stuff that I’m not sure is public yet.

[AZRedhawk44]

You might get 150 miles at low speeds, but once you hit the highway that range gets cut by two thirds.

I'm betting ballistic coefficients or sectional density comes into play here.

Much like shooting a rifle where heavier bullets don't gain as much speed but retain it better at longer ranges than their lighter peers, I bet that heavy loads on trucks suffer less wind resistance penalties as a percentage of total energy cost than passenger cars do.

[AZRedhawk44]

They would probably have been mad if a gas-powered truck that got 19mpg unloaded suddenly only got 9 or 10 when pulling a load. I used to be appalled at such nonsensical thinking but, sadly, it's become status quo.

Brad

Part of that also comes from some of the incredibly torquey old motors that existed in the past.  The sort of rig where you get 8mpg whether picking up a gallon of milk or pulling a cattle trailer with a dozen cows in it.

I certainly remember the disparity of fuel efficiency when towing being less for older vehicles.

[sumpnz]

That 15,000 pounds is before cargo, correct?

So, with 40,000 pounds of cargo on board, that's a total weight of 55,000?

So, we'd be talking what, about 150 mile range?

15,000 lbs JUST for the batteries.

Class 8 allows up to 80,000lbs (82,000 for BEV) without special permits.  They can easily go up to 105,000 lbs with the right permits.  That is GCWR (gross combined weight rating, so Tractor plus loaded trailer).  There’s also weight limits per axel.

For standard class 8 on highway applications IIRC that 15,000lbs of batteries is good for 400 miles on varied terrain.  500 miles under idealized conditions.  So probably 350 miles realistically while leaving some reasonable margin so you don’t grind to a halt on the side of the road.

[cordex]

Electric vehicles have their place, and I'd be open to owning one in addition to gas vehicles at some point.

My wife, for instance, would be very well served by an electric vehicle.  I could use one most of the time, for that matter.  Long trips are where electric really sucks wind.  Long trips in the winter would really be bad.

[Perd Hapley]

Electric vehicles have their place, and I'd be open to owning one in addition to gas vehicles at some point.

My wife, for instance, would be very well served by an electric vehicle.  I could use one most of the time, for that matter.  Long trips are where electric really sucks wind.  Long trips in the winter would really be bad.

No, we have to pretend that there's an emergency, and rush headlong into every allegedly green technology. Your prudence and reason have no place here.

[cordex]

No, we have to pretend that there's an emergency, and rush headlong into every allegedly green technology. Your prudence and reason have no place here.

You're saying to mount a windmill on top of my electric car to charge it?  DONE!

[Declaration Day]

What I was getting at is that someone made a "truck," and sold it as a truck, even though it can't do what people expect a truck to do.

Having now looked at the specs for the R1T, it appears it only promises to tow 11,000 lbs, not the 14,000 plus the owners tried to tow with it.

So point taken.

Furthermore, trucks have a wide range of capabilities.  You can buy a 2.7L 2 wheel drive F-150, but you'd be a fool to try to plow snow with it. It's important do do your homework and buy the truck that truly fits your needs.

[Declaration Day]

On a side note, Rivian did bring an example of the R1T to the steel fabrication business where I work, and I did get to take it for a spin.  It is an impressive vehicle, just obviously not meant to tow 15,000 pounds across the country.  I machined the parts for, and was involved in the assembly of the skids and hydraulic lift system that lifts the battery into the chassis on the assembly line.

[Perd Hapley]

Furthermore, trucks have a wide range of capabilities.  You can buy a 2.7L 2 wheel drive F-150, but you'd be a fool to try to plow snow with it. It's important do do your homework and buy the truck that truly fits your needs.

My F-150 has the 4.2L V6. I had no idea pickup truck engines were getting so small these days. The last models years I looked at, the trend was bigger and bigger V8s, not to mention those V10s.

[Ben]

My F-150 has the 4.2L V6. I had no idea pickup truck engines were getting so small these days. The last models years I looked at, the trend was bigger and bigger V8s, not to mention those V10s.

They're getting small because of the twin turbos. I have the 2.7 F150, and it makes the 4.0L on my 4Runner seem like a snail (though that is one bulletproof engine). I wouldn't want to do long distance hauling with the 2.7 just because of the higher RPMs it has to generate at highway speeds to do it. It hauls 3/4 of a ton in the back and get 23 average mpg though, so it's great for a half-assed farmer.

[cordex]

I’ve got the 5.0L V8 in mine and have been pleasantly surprised at the fuel efficiency. For my regular driving I get over 22mpg indicated (closer to 20.5 actual) over the course of a tank. Way better than the V6 in my Exploder got. If I spend a lot of time on interstates I’ve seen upwards of 27 indicated.

Driving around the property in 4X4 really drops the average.

[zxcvbob]

My 2007 Chevy with the 6.0L V8 gets surprisingly not-terrible gas mileage.  I don't remember for sure what I got when I drove it back from Texas but I think it was about 16 MPG.  I've been using it for my daily driver for the past month or so and I still have half a tank from the fill-up I did back in May.  I'll be parking it for the winter soon to keep it out of the snow and road salt.

[MillCreek]

https://interestingengineering.com/transportation/mercedes-benz-electric-truck?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=content&utm_campaign=organic&utm_content=Oct03&fbclid=IwAR2sEsTD6EO5J5oXEb0PNk6vID3cNadJxpHUjl3VPDsa_DnLWlPS2oBEAIs

Mercedes Benz has a prototype of a semi with 311 miles range.

[MechAg94]

https://interestingengineering.com/transportation/mercedes-benz-electric-truck?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=content&utm_campaign=organic&utm_content=Oct03&fbclid=IwAR2sEsTD6EO5J5oXEb0PNk6vID3cNadJxpHUjl3VPDsa_DnLWlPS2oBEAIs

Mercedes Benz has a prototype of a semi with 311 miles range.

The page says 311 miles, but doesn't say what the mileage is loaded.  Could be an omission, but none of the electric vehicles talk about loaded range.  If they are going to call it a 40 ton truck, then I want to know how far it can haul 40 tons on a single charge.  I can only assume they are being evasive.  The only item I thought was good is they said the batteries were designed for a 10 year life.

It looks like they haven't done road tests so we will see.  Maybe I am just being Mr. Negative.   

[MillCreek]

https://electrek.co/2022/09/19/mercedes-benz-eactros-longhaul-electric-truck/

This article here assumes the Benz semi is talking about loaded range, but we don't know for sure.

[Ben]

https://electrek.co/2022/09/19/mercedes-benz-eactros-longhaul-electric-truck/

This article here assumes the Benz semi is talking about loaded range, but we don't know for sure.

I've been reading more about this stuff, and weather seems to be a particularly large input. I didn't see it in the article, but I wonder if and/or how they compute weather variables into their averages. From what I've seen, if they computed the 300 miles using optimal temperatures, a ten degree day could knock that range down by a good 30-40%.

[MillCreek]

I also just read an interesting article about cabover trucks: https://www.smart-trucking.com/cabovers-make-a-comeback/.  Cabovers are no longer popular here but are popular for the European road system.  I wonder if cabover or conventional hood trucks are better for the electric format.

[cordex]

I've been reading more about this stuff, and weather seems to be a particularly large input. I didn't see it in the article, but I wonder if and/or how they compute weather variables into their averages. From what I've seen, if they computed the 300 miles using optimal temperatures, a ten degree day could knock that range down by a good 30-40%.

I think in large part that is because raising the temperature (both of the cab and the batteries) is accomplished through resistance heating.
1. That's likely to be a bigger percentage of loss for a smaller vehicle than a bigger one.
2. I bet in a year or so some manufacturer starts incorporating a heat pump to be more efficient.

[MillCreek]

Does a consumer (small) electric vehicle need auxiliary heating or cooling of the battery pack? 

[dogmush]

Does a consumer (small) electric vehicle need auxiliary heating or cooling of the battery pack?

Most EV's I've looked at have liquid cooled batteries.