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Author Topic: Firearms Industry Not Buying Giuliani's Overtures  (Read 13632 times)

Desertdog

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Firearms Industry Not Buying Giuliani's Overtures
« on: September 21, 2007, 08:18:36 AM »

Firearms Industry Not Buying Giuliani's Overtures
By Susan Jones
CNSNews.com Senior Editor
September 21, 2007
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPolitics.asp?Page=/Politics/archive/200709/POL20070921b.html

(CNSNews.com) - Second Amendment supporters say Rudy Giuliani's actions will speak louder than his words, when he addresses the National Rifle Association on Friday.

As Giuliani speaks, top officials from the gun industry will be in New York City, fighting a lawsuit the former mayor filed in 2000. The lawsuit seeks to hold firearms manufacturers responsible for the criminal misuse of their products.

Giuliani has refused to comment on that lawsuit, even as he courts gun owners, the National Shooting Sports Foundation noted on Friday. (The NSSF is the trade association of the firearms industry.)

"Recent remarks indicate the mayor is attempting to camouflage his record on guns," now that he's running for the Republican presidential nomination, said Lawrence G. Keane, NSSF senior vice president and general counsel.

"It's not surprising that Mr. Giuliani is now courting the firearms industry and the National Rifle Association -- whose members he has referred to as extremists," said Keane.

"His support for gun control and contempt for the manufacturers, retailers and purchasers of firearms may have gained him praise in Gotham, but that will only handicap him in the rest of the country. He understands this and is now trying to backpedal."

When he became the only Republican mayor to sue the firearms industry seven years ago (the announcement can now be seen on YouTube), Giuliani said he was doing so because the industry was "profiting from the suffering of innocent people." Giuliani said the lawsuit was intended to "end the free pass that the gun industry has so long enjoyed."

In 2005, when President Bush signed a bill barring lawsuits intended to bankrupt the gun industry, the Giuliani lawsuit was specifically mentioned as an example of the "junk" lawsuits the new law was intended to stop.

(A federal appeals court on Friday will decide whether New York City's lawsuit against various gun makers may proceed, despite the 2005 law that is supposed to block such lawsuits.)

The National Rifle Association has invited Giuliani and other Republicans to a "celebration of American values" on Friday and Saturday. Most of the presidential hopefuls will be there -- among them, Sen. John McCain, who is planning to fire away at Giuliani's stance on guns.

According to the Associated Press, McCain will criticize Giuliani for trying to "bankrupt our great gun manufacturers."

"My friends, gun owners are not extremists; you are the core of modern America," McCain reportedly said in his prepared remarks. "The Second Amendment is unique in the world and at the core of our constitutional freedoms. It guarantees an individual right to keep and bear arms. To argue anything else is to reject the clear meaning of our founding fathers.

"But the clear meaning of the Second Amendment has not stopped those who want to punish firearms owners -- and those who make and sell firearms -- for the actions of criminals," McCain said.

The Associated Press quoted Giuliani as saying that he will focus on issues of agreement between himself and the NRA. For example, on Thursday, Giuliani said the focus should be on people who use guns illegally.

The Rabbi

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Re: Firearms Industry Not Buying Giuliani's Overtures
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2007, 08:55:09 AM »

He'll focus on issues where they agree.  That should make it the shortest speech on record.
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Manedwolf

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Re: Firearms Industry Not Buying Giuliani's Overtures
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2007, 09:13:57 AM »

I hope Taurus' Bob Morrison says something.

Quote
SI: Some doubt that we are really in danger of losing our Constitutional freedoms? Do you really believe that?

During my 36-plus years in the firearms industry, my vision has changed. Initially, it was the excitement of just being part of it. Then it was the ability to provide for my young family while having the excitement of living a dream. I then slowly entered another phase when I noticed there were people carving away at the Second Amendment. It became unpopular to be a member of the firearm community and to have a love of hunting and firearms themselves.

Morrison: Yes. Most individuals fail to realize there are many people who go to work everyday with the sole purpose of taking away our freedoms guaranteed in the Bill of Rights. All the employees in the anti-gun movement, hundreds of them, are rewarded for initiating creative ways to deny us those rights. I never suspected I'd have an influence in this area, but as I gained position in the industry, I could see there was an opportunity to donate time and effort to fight those who would take away our freedoms.

We've been assaulted with questionable lawsuits from various associations of trial lawyers. Since anti-gun groups are unable to pass proper legislation, they are attacking our civil rights guaranteed not only by the Second Amendment but all of the amendments. They've resorted to a shoddy bypass of the legislative process to use lawsuits to achieve their self-serving objectives. Part of the process is to bleed us out financially. So, it doesn't seem to matter whether they lose all the suits, the enormity of the expense to us also comes into play.

SI: What can we do?

Morrison: We must stop these assaults that are ruining our industry, our freedoms and, literally, our way of life. I took an oath when I joined the Army to defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic. I continue to keep that oath. Everytime I appear before anti-industry litigators, I realize their sole purpose is to disarm us. I am not going to allow that to happen.

Word was that Taurus pretty much told Massachusetts to get bent in regards to the "testing" extortion racket they run, hence they're all banned there.

longeyes

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Re: Firearms Industry Not Buying Giuliani's Overtures
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2007, 09:44:27 AM »

Giuliani's position is simple enough: firearms should be illegal where you most need 'em.
"Domari nolo."

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RadioFreeSeaLab

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Re: Firearms Industry Not Buying Giuliani's Overtures
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2007, 10:11:00 AM »

Rudy Claims an Evolution on Gun Rights

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2007/09/giuliani_claims_an_evolution_o.php
Quote
Giuliani Claims An Evolution On Gun Rights

21 Sep 2007 11:46 am

Glossing over the less appealing line items on his gun control resume, ex-NYC mayor Rudy Giuliani presented himself as sympathetic to the aims of the National Rifle Association and pledged, as president, to protect gun rights.

"Your right to bear arms is based on a reasonable degree of safety," he said.

He indicated that he would oppose new efforts to tighten national gun laws.

"I believe that law endforcement should focus on enforcing the laws that exist on the books as opposed to passing new extensions of laws," he said. "A person's home is their castle. They have the right to protect themselves in their own home."

Giulaini explained the lawsuit he initiated in 2000 against gun manufacturers by saying that he was "excessive in everyway that I could think of in order to reduce crime" but said that "intervening events" like September 11th had caused his views to evolve. "I think that lawsuit has gone in the direction that I don't agree with."

He cited a DC court ruling overturning the city's gun ban as instrumental to changing and "strengthening" his views on gun control. That ruling, Parker vs. the Distict of Columbia, was handed down just as Giuliani was beginning his presidential bid.

Giuliani said that MoveOn.org's ad criticizing Gen. Petreaus was out of bounds and hinted that the group should face some sort of sanction.

"They passed a line that we should not allow an American political organization to pass," he said. "We are at war right now, whether some people want to recognize it or not."

A humanizing moment: Giuliani's wife, Judith, called his cell phone, and the two proceeded to have a lovey-dovey chat. "Good bye, sweetheart, I love you," he said.

Sergeant Bob

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Re: Firearms Industry Not Buying Giuliani's Overtures
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2007, 10:22:04 AM »

Quote
Giuliani Claims An Evolution On Gun Rights

So why didn't you tell us about this "evolution" before you started running for President? (rhetorical)
Personally, I do not understand how a bunch of people demanding a bigger govt can call themselves anarchist.
I meet lots of folks like this, claim to be anarchist but really they're just liberals with pierced genitals. - gunsmith

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The Rabbi

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Re: Firearms Industry Not Buying Giuliani's Overtures
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2007, 10:41:11 AM »

Where's the barf smiley?
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Paddy

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Re: Firearms Industry Not Buying Giuliani's Overtures
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2007, 11:12:05 AM »

Quote
Giuliani Claims An Evolution On Gun Rights

So why didn't you tell us about this "evolution" before you started running for President? (rhetorical)

Because he figures he can BS his way out of it.  People have short memories.  Besides, if he's the Republican nominee, y'all will vote for him because y'all 'don't have anywhere else to go'.

Manedwolf

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Re: Firearms Industry Not Buying Giuliani's Overtures
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2007, 11:15:19 AM »

Evolution on gun rights, huh?

Just because a snake has its mouth closed at this particular moment, that doesn't mean its fangs are gone and that it's no longer poisonous.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. No, Rudy. Fail.


Werewolf

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Re: Firearms Industry Not Buying Giuliani's Overtures
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2007, 11:34:33 AM »

Quote
y'all will vote for him because y'all 'don't have anywhere else to go'.
If Giuliani gets the nod the 2008 election will be the first one I will not have voted in since 1972 because I'll be staying home...
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The Rabbi

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Re: Firearms Industry Not Buying Giuliani's Overtures
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2007, 12:38:35 PM »

Quote
y'all will vote for him because y'all 'don't have anywhere else to go'.
If Giuliani gets the nod the 2008 election will be the first one I will not have voted in since 1972 because I'll be staying home...

Ditto.
I suspect a lot of us feel the same way.
Fight state-sponsored Islamic terrorism: Bomb France now!

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Standing Wolf

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Re: Firearms Industry Not Buying Giuliani's Overtures
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2007, 01:09:52 PM »

Quote
"Your right to bear arms is based on a reasonable degree of safety," he said.

Another dummy who's never read the Constitution heard from.
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roo_ster

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Re: Firearms Industry Not Buying Giuliani's Overtures
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2007, 01:16:20 PM »

If Giuliani is the nominee, I will seek out third parties on which to spend my vote. 

He would be an OK SecDef, though.
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Paddy

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Re: Firearms Industry Not Buying Giuliani's Overtures
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2007, 01:18:26 PM »

Quote
y'all will vote for him because y'all 'don't have anywhere else to go'.
If Giuliani gets the nod the 2008 election will be the first one I will not have voted in since 1972 because I'll be staying home...

Ditto.
I suspect a lot of us feel the same way.

Except that it will be 'the most important election of our lifetime'.  Hannity has been beating the drum for Giuliani for months.  Can you imagine the hysterical frenzy if it's Giuliani vs. Hillary?

Waitone

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Re: Firearms Industry Not Buying Giuliani's Overtures
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2007, 01:49:40 PM »

We're safe.  Finally Rudy has seen the light.  His anti-second amendment ACTIONS have been replaced with his pro-self defense WORDS.  Yessirree, we're in good hands now.  An entire lifetime of deeds has been erase with a few well chosen words.

Any fool who believes Rudy's bilge deserves every blessed thing coming his way.  I for one continue to watch actions and ignore words.
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wooderson

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Re: Firearms Industry Not Buying Giuliani's Overtures
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2007, 02:40:21 PM »

Really hoping Giuliani gets the nom so we can finally determine once and for all if the NRA gives a *expletive deleted*it about guns or if they're more interested in funneling time and money to the GOP.
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thebaldguy

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Re: Firearms Industry Not Buying Giuliani's Overtures
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2007, 03:35:48 PM »

I don't think he did much for 2nd Amendment rights when he was mayor of NYC. I may be wrong, but he didn't make it easier for law abiding citizens of NYC to legally purchase firearms.

Antibubba

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Re: Firearms Industry Not Buying Giuliani's Overtures
« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2007, 10:33:12 PM »

I think my guns would be safer with Hillary than Adolph Giuliani.
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Regolith

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Re: Firearms Industry Not Buying Giuliani's Overtures
« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2007, 12:01:55 AM »

I hope Taurus' Bob Morrison says something.

Quote
SI: Some doubt that we are really in danger of losing our Constitutional freedoms? Do you really believe that?

During my 36-plus years in the firearms industry, my vision has changed. Initially, it was the excitement of just being part of it. Then it was the ability to provide for my young family while having the excitement of living a dream. I then slowly entered another phase when I noticed there were people carving away at the Second Amendment. It became unpopular to be a member of the firearm community and to have a love of hunting and firearms themselves.

Morrison: Yes. Most individuals fail to realize there are many people who go to work everyday with the sole purpose of taking away our freedoms guaranteed in the Bill of Rights. All the employees in the anti-gun movement, hundreds of them, are rewarded for initiating creative ways to deny us those rights. I never suspected I'd have an influence in this area, but as I gained position in the industry, I could see there was an opportunity to donate time and effort to fight those who would take away our freedoms.

We've been assaulted with questionable lawsuits from various associations of trial lawyers. Since anti-gun groups are unable to pass proper legislation, they are attacking our civil rights guaranteed not only by the Second Amendment but all of the amendments. They've resorted to a shoddy bypass of the legislative process to use lawsuits to achieve their self-serving objectives. Part of the process is to bleed us out financially. So, it doesn't seem to matter whether they lose all the suits, the enormity of the expense to us also comes into play.

SI: What can we do?

Morrison: We must stop these assaults that are ruining our industry, our freedoms and, literally, our way of life. I took an oath when I joined the Army to defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic. I continue to keep that oath. Everytime I appear before anti-industry litigators, I realize their sole purpose is to disarm us. I am not going to allow that to happen.

Word was that Taurus pretty much told Massachusetts to get bent in regards to the "testing" extortion racket they run, hence they're all banned there.



You know, I've been planning to get a revolver for some time.  I wasn't considering Taurus, but rather was focused on S&W and Ruger.  Due to that quote, I think I'm going to have to seriously reconsider that. 
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nico

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Re: Firearms Industry Not Buying Giuliani's Overtures
« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2007, 08:45:45 AM »

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070922/D8RQ6S780.html

Quote
Despite Giuliani's changing views, NRA chief Wayne LaPierre said: "All I know is, I liked what I heard today. It's a good thing, if a politician sees the light and supports the Second Amendment."
rolleyes rolleyes rolleyes

If the NRA endorses him, I'm gonna have to think very hard about whether I renew my membership.

longeyes

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Re: Firearms Industry Not Buying Giuliani's Overtures
« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2007, 09:27:55 AM »

A man's home is his castle.  He got that far--although what kind of stuff I can keep in my castle he's not discussing.  But why do I get the feeling that a President Giuliani wouldn't be too keen on legal concealed carry?  He's another RINO who, in the end, doesn't trust the people and doesn't trust responsible individuals to operate without the overbearing "wisdom" of The Government.
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Manedwolf

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Re: Firearms Industry Not Buying Giuliani's Overtures
« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2007, 09:38:13 AM »

BTW, the "phone call from his wife" was staged. Fox showed that he did the same thing at an earlier speech. This one even sounded staged.