E15

[zahc]

The EPA has approved E15, but only for vehicles manufactured after 2001. This puzzles me for several reasons

--is every vehicle manufactured after 2001 actually compatible with E15 due to some other government mandate? What about imports?

--I have heard that it's 'illegal' to put the fuel into vehicles older than 2001, not just 'not recommended'. Illegal how? I'm anticipating the day I pull up to a station that has nothing but E15; what am I supposed to do, walk? I suppose I'm already non-patriotic because I drive a '96, so I just don't matter.

[mtnbkr]

I'm anticipating the day I pull up to a station that has nothing but E15; what am I supposed to do, walk? 

Same here.  My 1997 4Runner (with 202k miles) runs great and so I'm not inclined to get ride of it anytime soon, but if E15 becomes universal, I'm screwed.

Chris

[CNYCacher]

--is every vehicle manufactured after 2001 actually compatible with E15 due to some other government mandate? What about imports?

I wouldn't be surprised.  Back in the day my wife drove a mid-90's Malibu.  There was a small sticker on the back of the gas door that stated in tiny print "This vehicle is designed to run on any mixture of gasoline and ethanol"

Flex fuel cars were around long before "Flex Fuel" was a badge and a selling point.  If there was a federal mandate that all cars must run on any mix of ethanol by 2001, I wouldn't be surprised in the least.

[AZRedhawk44]

Pretty much every vehicle manufacturer except GM says "do not run E15 in our vehicles unless it is 2012 or later."

http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=37578.0

http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/2000862202001/

[CNYCacher]

Pretty much every vehicle manufacturer except GM says "do not run E15 in our vehicles unless it is 2012 or later."

http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=37578.0

http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/2000862202001/

*shrug*  Well, the Malibu is a GM product. . .

[charby]

My 2002 Supercharged Nissan Frontier actually runs the best on 30% ethanol but my MPG is crap. In Iowa we have a lot of blender pumps so I have gotten the change to play with different mixtures.

[Ben]

Truck is diesel, so no problems there. My 2000 Trooper however is not, and I was hoping to get another 100K miles out of it.

This is what burns me about the E15 thing, and the Prius thing, and the Volt thing, and the general "new products that will save the environment!" bandwagon. It's all about buying new stuff. If they were all truly concerned about just the environment, they would actually be pushing people to hold onto their old vehicles until the vehicle falls apart. This kind of stuff simply ends the lifespan of perfectly serviceable goods much earlier than practical. Cash for Clunkers being a prime example of the process.

Giving someone the option of E15, or buying a Prius is one thing. Creating a situation where it is essentially mandated through the backdoor is another, and it's underhanded.

[HankB]

. . . Giving someone the option of E15, or buying a Prius is one thing. Creating a situation where it is essentially mandated through the backdoor is another, and it's underhanded.

What do you mean, underhanded? It's a market economy - the ethanol producers bought themselves a legislature, so they're theirs to use as they see fit. If you don't like it, go ahead and buy yourself a legislature; should be easy, as today's crop of lawmakers are different from the more honest politicians of yesteryear, who stayed bought.

[Boomhauer]

Truck is diesel, so no problems there. My 2000 Trooper however is not, and I was hoping to get another 100K miles out of it.

This is what burns me about the E15 thing, and the Prius thing, and the Volt thing, and the general "new products that will save the environment!" bandwagon. It's all about buying new stuff. If they were all truly concerned about just the environment, they would actually be pushing people to hold onto their old vehicles until the vehicle falls apart. This kind of stuff simply ends the lifespan of perfectly serviceable goods much earlier than practical. Cash for Clunkers being a prime example of the process.

Giving someone the option of E15, or buying a Prius is one thing. Creating a situation where it is essentially mandated through the backdoor is another, and it's underhanded.

It's all about control.

They don't really openly say it often, but the statists hate that you have a personal vehicle that gives you freedom of travel and privacy just as much as they hate that you have guns.

[roo_ster]

[Gewehr98]

I don't buy that cartoon for a stinkin' second - let alone the fact you don't feed people field corn on the cob.

Fact - we have corn stoves here, for chrissakes.  They burn corn.  As in, we have so much extra here in the corn belt we can afford to heat our houses with it.

The field corn my farming relatives sells for ethanol is excess to what they need for their angus beef herd, and grown on former PIK acreage.

If I was farming, I'd do the same, although I'd give bourbon distilleries a chance to bid on a few bushels, too. When the conversion plants evolve to other biomass, I'd plant that, too.

[Boomhauer]

My issue is with being mandated to use ethanol blended fuel in my vehicle

[lupinus]

I don't buy that cartoon for a stinkin' second - let alone the fact you don't feed people field corn on the cob.

Fact - we have corn stoves here, for chrissakes.  They burn corn.  As in, we have so much extra here in the corn belt we can afford to heat our houses with it.

The field corn my farming relatives sells for ethanol is excess to what they need for their angus beef herd, and grown on former PIK acreage.

If I was farming, I'd do the same, although I'd give bourbon distilleries a chance to bid on a few bushels, too. When the conversion plants evolve to other biomass, I'd plant that, too.

Honest question-

Were the government not inflating the market, could the farmers not grow a more productive food source on the same ground?

[zahc]

Fact - we have corn stoves here, for chrissakes.  They burn corn.  As in, we have so much extra here in the corn belt we can afford to heat our houses with it.

If you are refuting the cartoon's point, you are proving another one. Corn is artificially cheap due to government interference in the marketplace. This is the only reason why it's economical to put ethanol in gasoline. Ethanol in the US is largely made from corn. Modern corn is basically made from petroleum, with modern farming techniques. Thus, ethanol in gasoline. Instead of just burning the gasoline in our cars, we use it to grow corn, then distill the corn, and burn the ethanol, all at a net waste, to benefit Big Corn.

I'm not sure about the cartoon, however, because cheaper corn should be cheaper corn, period. But if we want to feed the starving masses, it would still be more effective for the government to give to charity rather than distort the marketplace with farm subsidys.

[seeker_two]

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