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Author Topic: Minnesota Gun Activism 2015  (Read 10493 times)
DustinD
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« on: January 25, 2015, 04:35:33 PM »

This thread is replacing the previous threads: MN House jumps on the ban wagon, and    
Minnesota: Gun registration and background check bills moving
, that were started two years ago.

In 2013 and 2014 we were attacked and held our ground in MN, we are hoping to go on the offensive in 2015. Sadly I missed this years strategy meeting, but I will have details tomorrow on the plan to share.

There is going to be a big get together at the State Capitol tomorrow. Sorry for the late notice, I just learned about it yesterday.



WHEN
January 26, 2015 at 12pm - 3pm

WHERE
MN State Capitol North Mall
75 Rev Dr Martin Luther King Junior Blvd
Saint Paul, MN 55155

Learn more at http://www.mngold.org

----------

I'm here, nothing happening yet. I will make a new post once stuff starts happening.

Everything is done except meeting with representatives. Several reps spoke, but it was a pretty low key event. I will try to figure out how many people showed up.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2015, 11:20:51 AM by DustinD » Report to moderator   Logged

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« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2015, 05:26:08 PM »

Give us a report, por favor.

(Don't know if I'll be making this year's Illinois IGOLD.  Depends on health and if I'm in the middle of something dr. ordered.)
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« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2015, 05:49:49 PM »

Moving this to Politics.

And yes, please do keep us informed.  Always interesting to see what works and what doesn't in different states and various dynamics involved.


GOOD LUCK !!!!!
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Congrats, Amy. Stay strong.


« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2015, 02:05:00 PM »

Good luck on your efforts.
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Allllmost, but we're getting there !
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« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2015, 02:10:58 PM »

Good luck!
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« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2015, 01:05:09 PM »

Here is an update, I will add more bill numbers with links and discriptions soon for the bills that exist.
HF-372 Carry notification at the capitol.
SF-28 Prohibit local law enforcement from enforcing federal gun laws.

www.gocra.org
www.mngopac.org

2015 Legislative Priorities Their Facebook page link has better formatting and pictures of the below text.
February 2, 2015 at 3:15pm

After two years of playing defense to gun control, we're turning the tables. This session will be all about restoring lost Second Amendment rights.
As GOCRA  and our partners at MNGOPAC talked about -- and took to legislators -- at last week's MNGOLD rally, these are our priorities for the current legislative session:
SESSION 2015 SECOND AMENDMENT PRIORITIES

Right to Keep and Bear Arms Amendment to the Minnesota Constitution
This fundamental right is guaranteed in 46 other statesĺ constitutionsůbut not in Minnesota. Itĺs long past time to enshrine this right in our own stateĺs highest law.

Ban "Emergency" Orders for Gun Confiscation*
Remember when police went door to door after Hurricane Katrina, confiscating peopleĺs self defense firearms just when they were needed most? Governor Dayton could make such an order tomorrow. That option should be off the table.

Legalize Firearm Suppressors
These important safety devices not only make shooting quieter and more enjoyable, but they can keep you from permanently damaging your hearing if you have to fire a gun in your home. Theyĺre legal in 39 other states. Why not Minnesota?

Constitutional Carry
We donĺt pay a fee to speak. We donĺt have to pass a background check to go to church. We donĺt have to take a class before we can gather in a group. So why do we have to do all that to exercise our Second Amendment rights? Like all gun control, all of these hurdles serve to delay and deny a fundamental right to those who need it most, and can afford it least.

Stop Police Departments from Delaying Purchase Permits
The Legislature gave police chiefs and sheriffs seven days to process permits to purchase a pistol or ôscary black rifle.ö Most do just fine, but some departments take three, four, or even five weeks to process these permits. We need to make sure that all public servants follow the law: A right delayed is a right denied!

Remove Redundant Capitol Complex Carry Notification
Did you remember to redundantly notify the Commissioner of Public Safety that your permit info is already in her permit database? Itĺs time to fix this law, which stopped making sense in 2003 when the Legislature gave the D.P.S. $1.2 million to create that statewide database.

Self Defense Law Reform*
Under current state law, your right to self defense decreases the moment you step outside your door. Court cases have completely rewritten the plain language of Minnesota statutes, to the point where you practically need a law degree to understand what your rights are ľ and what will get you locked up for life. Should law abiding citizens be coerced into surrendering their property, their right to move freely, and even their lives, to violent criminals?

* This legislation passed the House and Senate in 2012, before being vetoed by Governor Dayton.


Full size image.

The MNGOLD rally was more interesting than I thought. Right before I arrived we had a heckler (known anti gun agitator) wearing blaze orange camo, and we had a banner towing airplane flying overhead. Sadly I missed it.

From GOCRA's FB page: "THANK YOU to the 28 senators and representatives who took time from their busy days to stand with MNGOPAC, GOCRA and all law-abiding Minnesota gun owners at the ‪#‎MNGOLD‬ rally.
They are, in alphabetical order:

Sen. Bruce Anderson, Rep. Dave Baker, Rep. Peggy Bennett, Sen. David M. Brown, Rep. Tony Cornish, Sen. Gary H. Dahms, Rep. Steve Drazkowski, Rep. Dan Fabian, Rep. Steve Green, Rep. Tom Hackbarth, Rep. Dave Hancock, Rep. Josh Heintzeman, Rep. Brian Johnson, Sen. Mary Kiffmeyer, Sen. Warren Limmer, Rep. Eric Lucero, Rep. Jim Nash, Sen. David Osmek, Sen. Eric Pratt, Rep. Jason Rarick, Sen. Carrie Ruud, Rep. Peggy Scott, Rep. Chris Swedzinski, Rep. Mark Uglem, Sen. Torrey Westrom, and Rep. Abigail Whelan."

http://photos.twincities.com/2015/01/26/gun-rights-advocates-hold-gun-owners-lobby-day-at-state-capitol/#1 Some photos from the event.
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« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2015, 07:13:22 AM »

Any idea on the chances of getting them passed and signed into law/vetoes overridden?
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« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2015, 07:12:43 PM »

I think the odds are pretty good for suppressors, purchase permit reform, and Capitol notification.

Governor Dayton, despite being very anti gun has noticed which way the winds are blowing. He supported allowing people to continue carrying in the Capitol, and has made some other pro gun statements lately. I don't think overriding a veto is likely if it comes to that though.

GOCRA said there are some more updates coming soon. They also think we will get the permit to purchase situation improved.
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« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2015, 11:09:16 AM »

Recently the Mall Of America was threatened by the same terrorists that blew up the Kenya mall. The MoA bans guns in the entire mall, and has since the MPPA (MN Personal Protection Act) went into effect in 2003. That is illegal under MN law because they are a landlord. Now MN House Rep, and very pro gun, Tony Cornish and GOCRA (Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance) are pushing MoA to allow carry in the mall.



http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/story/28177893/mngop-rep-cornish-moas-gun-policy-is-illegal-creates-kill-zone-for-terrorists

GOCRA Briefing: Link to their website's briefing

The Mall of America has been in the news recently, after it was named as a possible target of an attack by al-Shabaab terrorists[1]. The group claimed responsibility for a 2013 attack on the Westgate Mall in Nairobi, Kenya, in which 63 shoppers were killed and over 175 more were injured by four terrorists armed with grenades and rifles.[2]

Mall management continues to insist that it retains the right to ban visitors from legally carrying pistols into the mall.[3] An analysis of Minnesota law reveals that they are mistaken: the law precludes the mall from banning legal carry.

Private Businesses Can Ban Carry ľ Sometimes

The Minnesota Citizens Personal Protection Act of 2003[4] allows certain types of private entities to remove individuals carrying under the terms of the law:

Subd. 17. Posting; trespass. (a) A person carrying a firearm on or about his or her person or clothes under a permit or otherwise who remains at a private establishment knowing that the operator of the establishment or its agent has made a reasonable request that firearms not be brought into the establishment may be ordered to leave the premises. A person who fails to leave when so requested is guilty of a petty misdemeanor.[5]

The statute goes on to define in great detail the form that the notification and request must take, including the placement and content of signs, means of verbal notification, and some special exclusions.

Landlords Canĺt Ban Carry!

One of those exclusions relates directly to landlords, who are specifically barred from restricting lawful carry:

(e) A landlord may not restrict the lawful carry or possession of firearms by tenants or their guests.[6]

Landlords are also barred from attempting an end-run around the statute:

(f) Notwithstanding any inconsistent provisions in section 609.605, this subdivision sets forth the exclusive criteria to notify a permit holder when otherwise lawful firearm possession is not allowed in a private establishment and sets forth the exclusive penalty for such activity.

No Absurd Results

Minnesota law provides very clear instructions for interpretation of its various provisions:

645.17 PRESUMPTIONS IN ASCERTAINING LEGISLATIVE INTENT.
(1) the legislature does not intend a result that is absurd, impossible of execution, or unreasonable;
(2) the legislature intends the entire statute to be effective and certain;[7]
<ů>

A prohibition on carry in common areas would effectively prevent tenants and their guests from reaching the tenant spaces. This is the quintessential definition of an ôabsurd, impossible of executionö result that renders a portion of the law meaningless, in contradiction of the Legislatureĺs intent for ôůthe entire statute to be effectiveů.ö

Because carry cannot be prohibited in the tenantsĺ private spaces, carry cannot be banned in the common areas required to reach those spaces.

This analysis is provided as general information, but it is not legal advice. Individual circumstances may result in different legal outcomes. If you plan to visit the Mall of America while carrying, given the mallĺs repeated declarations that they have the power to ban guns in common areas of the mall, you should consult an attorney licensed in Minnesota.

1 Google News: ôMall of Americaö ôAl-Shabaabö (https://www.google.com/search?q=ömall+of+americaö+öal-shabaabö)
2 ôWestgate shopping mall attack,ö Wikipedia. Retrieved Feb. 24, 2015 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westgate_s ... all_attack)
3 ôSecurity Information,ö Mall of America Web site. Retrieved Feb. 24, 2015 (http://www.mallofamerica.com/guests/security)
4 2003 Minnesota Session Laws, Chapter 28-S.F.No. 842 (https://www.revisor.mn.gov/laws/?id=28&year=2003&type=0)
5 Minnesota Statutes 2014, Chapter 624.714, Subd. 17 (https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id ... 624.714.17)
6 Ibid, paragraph (e)
7 Ibid, paragraph (f)
8 Minnesota Statutes 2014, Chapter 645.17 (https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=645.17)

MNGOPAC (Political Action Committee) has a similar release.

MNGOPAC STATEMENT ON MALL OF AMERICA GUN BAN (Link goes to their Facebook post)

"The Mall of America has long had a policy to prohibit lawful carry of firearms by Minnesotans, including posting signs throughout the mall and removing permit holders seen to be carrying firearms.

Minnesota law, however, prohibits a landlord from interfering with the carrying of firearms under MN statute 624.714 by tenants or their guests.

The Mall of America is well aware that as landlords they cannot ban lawful carry. Carrying at the Mall of America does not violate the law, only the mall's wishes.

The current threat environment makes it unconscionable to seek to prohibit self-defense by the mall's customers."

- Bryan Strawser, Executive Director, Minnesota Gun Owners Political Action Committee

LIKE AND SHARE
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« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2015, 11:22:18 AM »

These three pro gun bills have been introduced. I think these have a good chance of moving forward, and being signed into law. You can read a bit more about them at GOCRA's Facebook page.




http://www.gocra.org/news/2015/02/capitol-carry-2015/




https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/t31.0-8/10003649_402980626538101_1082543362489073529_o.png Link to full size image of the above.

I am not sure how likely Constitutional Carry is to pass, hopefully we can get some carry reform.
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« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2015, 05:31:43 PM »

MN Capitol Security Advisory Committee meeting decides to keep open access to the Capitol complex, with no gun restrictions.

In the Fall of 2013 during a similar CSAC an anti-gun verbal-bully testified that guns being carried by permit holders in the Capitol made him feel unsafe. But apparently not so unsafe that he couldn't keep from yelling over people for no reason, and yelling out the "words" PAAh-RAAh-NNooooooiiiiiiiAAAAAAAHHHHH!!!! over everyone else (both pro and anti gun) that were trying to have peaceful, civil, and quiet conversations. In 2014 that guy was yelling out, louder each time, over and over, "If they had any respect for women, they wouldn't have anyone here!" This was during the so called domestic violence bills, that did nothing but try to ban guns and bring a few DV things in line with federal laws. The other guy who is a bit smarter tried to get some of our guys kicked out, but nearly ended up getting himself in trouble instead.

Most of the people in MN, both pro and anti gun, are civil and polite, but poor behavior by our opponents and various tricks and fraud are becoming our biggest threat as the tide turns more in our favor. The fraudulent group Minnesota Gun Rights, officially affiliated with NAGR (National Association of Gun Rights) is causing trouble and attacking Tony Cornish among other pro gun politicians, stealing time from legitimate pro gun speakers, and engaging in false flag attacks against our allies and opponents alike. I would happily trade away MGR for mere idiots like a few of the worst open carriers (and I support open carry) and mere swindling organisations that are all too common in charities and politics. MGR (MN Gun Rights) is like a fake animal rescue group that runs an underground dog fighting ring. MGR, NAGR, and other NAGR state affiliates put way too much effort into screwing things up and making gun rights activists look bad for this to be simple fraud.

In lighter news:
Tony Cornish, MN Rep, Pro gun, was on Fox concerning the MoA gun ban. Seems that Fox is pro gun as well.
This video Todd Starnes, Fox Nation's The Dispatch, with Tony Cornish is also pretty good, and short.

Cowardly liberal legislator skips two-day hearing on her own gun-control bills!  This video showed up after the first one played. It is a bunch of highlights from the 2013 MN gun debates. Some of it is pretty entertaining as far as political hearing testimony goes.
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« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2015, 01:04:55 AM »

From GOCRA's Facebook page.

The House Public Safety Committee has scheduled a hearing for three GOCRA-supported bills we want to see passed this year.
 
The hearing will be held at 10:15 a.m. on Thursday, March 12 in room 10 of the State Office Building, near the State Capitol, and will include these three bills:
 
HF1434 - Rep. Mark Anderson's bill would legalize firearm suppressors in Minnesota for all lawful purposes. (Dustin's Note: This includes "shall sign" legislation with an appeals process for anyone denied)
 
     See our briefing on sound suppressors
 
HF372 - Rep. Jim Nash's bill would remove the obsolete notification requirement for permit holders who enter any Capitol Area state building.
 
     See our briefing on Capitol carry
 
HF830 - Rep. Eric Lucero's bill would, after 29 years, update Minnesota law to make it clear that Minnesotans are allowed to buy long guns in other states.
 
     See our briefing on long gun purchase in other states
 
The committee will also hear Rep. Dan Fabian's HF305, which would add recognition of North Dakota carry permits in Minnesota.
 
See you there!
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« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2015, 03:50:15 AM »

TL;DR  We won! All four bills headed to the House Floor. Next meeting for the House is this Tuesday. Updates and proof reading when I get home. More of the same in the morning.


Today is House safety Committee hearing day. I will try to live blog, but I am not sure what sort of connection I will have. I will be using a small smart phone, and will make corrections and such after I get back home. Either way, expect updates by at least noon, central time.

9:15   A little over 20 of us. I only see Heather Martens from the opposition so far. Several politicians talking to people.  
9:25   Maybe 40 of us, still no one else from the other side.
9:40   50 of us, at least 2 of them. They are holding hearings on two pro gun bills at one time. Both are said to have wide spread support. I think North Dakota reciprocity is the new bill being added to the list.

10:00  Seated. Maybe 100 of us in this room.

Just 'learned' from the paper handouts that suppressors are the NRA's biggest lie. It's a copy of an article from Salon. Fun read involving CIA murder and the like. Should make today's hearing more interesting.
Thankfully the most pro gun guy in the House is Chair this year. Last year we had the most anti gun person as Chair. The House went R after the last election, the Senate is still 5D-3R.

10:16  starting.

"Fun day gun day at the Capitol" - Rep Tony Cornish, Chair.

Chiefs of Police MCPA is against suppressors.  Sad  they say it hurts ShotSpotter. My phone originally typed it as $#!TSpotter. They think suppressors would be stolen. Poaching. Sorry for my poor smart phone spelling and grammar. I will fix it later, and scan in the derp.

10:23.  GOCRA president Andrew Rothman up. Talking about Capitol notification.
10:31   Police talking about Capitol carry notification. We have to email, write, or Fax any .gov building before we carry there, or it is a felony. This is only required once in your life per location.
Felony, no warning signs to let people know of the obscure law. Talking about history of this issue. In short its from before electronic databases and the  standardization that shall issue brought to the state.
Walking on the sidewalk around the Capitol grounds without written notification is a felony.

10:41  Opposition is up.  Older lady said she lost a sister in a home invasion. Story sounds like a rape/murder. Said most years no permit holders are known to have shot someone in self defense. Said many CCW committed crimes. Said she is against this and other pro gun bills.

Supposed gun owner said he is against CCW, calls us fearful, intimidating, questions why we need guns in the Capitol. Disgusted, repeated for emphasis. With us and the NRA name. His name is Phil Charles. Seems extremely anti gun for an alleged owner.

10:47  Chair and others talking. Police officer & rep says normal people can't handle stress of a shoot/no shoot scenario. He is against Capitol carry.

10:53  Bill passed to floor. I didn't hear a single nay.
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« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2015, 07:59:58 AM »

Suppressors

10:57   Suppressors are up. I can barely scroll on this phone, may need to try tapatalk. Starting a new post because of trouble scrolling.

Same as mufflers, invented by same person. (Maxim) "Won't be ninjas shooting"

10:58   Rothman. Holding up suppressor.  Good speech. Eight times louder than a jack hammer.
11:01   Walking us through federal process to acquire Title 2 items.
11:11   Someone else up. Sighting medical studies. Very good work so far. Said one shot caused permanent hearing loss.

If you have suppressor, doesn't protect you from others, question from rep.

11:15   ASA up. Talking about noise, laws. Says criminals only use home made suppressors. Criminals don't want an extra 4-9 inches on their pistols.
Hunters want institutional awareness. Don't wear hearing protection.

11:21  Cornish: Shot locator can find suppressed weapons. Suppressed weapons have not been a problem in any state.
11:24   ASA: Air guns are stronger than suppressed 22. Said "how often are 22 used in crime." My comment, often. I think a rep added later that they are used it was a bad comment from the ASA. ASA also missed hunting dogs hearing protection, and recoil.

Q:  Do other states limit pistol suppressors, or suppressor size?  A:  No and no.
Q:  Does suppressor affect bullet forensics. A:  No impact.

ASA was asked about its membership size concerning normal people. 1000 normal people, lots of dealers, manufacturers, new org, since 2011, it just started growing.
Q:   Gun show loophole with suppressors?  A:   No, same regs.  (Some laughter from the crowd)

11:31   Minnesota weapons collectors org up. No real comments, they support suppressors.

11:32   Citizens up:  MN NG guy up. Lost hearing in Iraq. Wants suppressors in part for home defense.

11:34   Opposition's turn. Heather Martens, head of Protect Minnesota, and the leader of the opposition. Claims 15k members (lie).

Claims gun owners think suppressor regs are good as they sit, also says we want to dismantle fed gun suppressor laws. MN chiefs against it. Shot spotter is not good, doesn't want it worse.

Silencers were not designed to protect hearing. Says silencers were designed to commit murder and get away with it. (Laughter) Crowd told to be quiet. (All of her BS came from an article from Salon.)

11:38   Q:  For martens. Claimed 12 uses in crime. A:  Because of strict controls. Fed legislation is under attack.
Q:  How does this bill affect the fed issue re legalization. A:  We will have nothing at state level should fed laws be repealed.

Q:  Can you be snuck up on by eight jack hammers? A:  feds reg these. (I should look up the videos, I could not transcribe very fast on my smart phone, as such I am missing lots of details.)

8 x louder, scientist says you need 32 devices because of db scale. (It would actually be a lot more, the energy is 32x louder)

11:43  A surgeon is up. The audience is reminded to be quiet if we object to anything we hear.
He says knows nothing about guns, but it's sad when he can't save people, including from gun shots. Thanked Andrew Rothman (GOCRA pres) for help with parking meter.
Brought up health issue of suppressor, hearing. Claims evidence of hearing protection us sketchy. Casting doubt on well researched science in general. He doesn't seem too anti gun.
He doubts relationship between db and hearing loss. (My comment WTF, lots of WTF looks and noises in the room) (His statements ended up being mocked by *everyone* all night, many reps, and our side really ripped into his statements.)(That guy was adamant, and answered many questions on the matter, he doesn't think loud noises cause hearing loss, WTF??)

Rep mentions the state and laws always sight and measure in db.

11:51   Another lady up. Said reason for fed law was gangsters, I will transcribe some of these comments when I get home. She claims this is being pushed by NRA and manufacturers. She is showing pictures from suppressor manufacturer/dealer websites. (I could see a skull and cross bones on one of the sheets. She must be hand picking adds that make us look bad, not sure if what she is showing is legitimate ads or not)

11:55   Cornish said we won't finish now, will recess at noon. He said sheriff's and MPPA?? (another LEO group) Aren't here to oppose. (they aren't here at all, and gave no objection, nor would they, as they are pro gun)

Now we have unorganized citizen open testimony.
11:57   Previous lady who's sister was shot in her bed is up again.
11:58   Another guy up. Wants a 70 db limit and restriction of suppressors to ranges.
12:02   Another guy, Uzi FA instructor was shot and killed by a little girl. Says noise issue is a lie. Mainly a way for poachers. Mentioned Britain.
12:03   Another guy, runs a tech firm, no financial issue or stake. Pro gun.
    Private citizens done.
12:05   Reps talking.
    "I'd like to table this till we can hear from an audiologist."
    <pause>
    Tony Cornish - "No, we are in recess." <gavel bangs> Several in the audience LOL


Seems they had about 10 people total, not sure. We seem to have over 100.
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« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2015, 01:22:21 PM »

4:18   About to start again. Hopefully going to mention hearing protection, police use of suppressors, recoil reduction. (Later edit: Didn't have time, only four minutes divided by a few speakers, but we still did well.)
4:22   Meeting back to order.

Technical details, "and" vs "or". Everything good there.
Talked idea of medical facts concerning hearing loss. Referring to the surgeon mentioned earlier.

4:28   Discussing court, regarding carry permits, recovering attorney fee's if permits are wrongly denied.

4:45   Andrew and Heather talked for four mins each. Andrew refuted previous comments. Heather now claims this is an end run around attempt at invalidating background checks. she is referring to them having 15 days to do a mechanical background check, vs the 30 for other types. Various reps responding. Turns out in MN some BG checks get 7, some 15, and some 30, it depends on the type. Almost every law, with a few exceptions, go by the standard that the time limit is consistent regarding and based on the type, and its thoroughness.

I video taped both sides four minutes. Will upload to YouTube if the Capitol cameras didn't save it.

4:49   Rep referring to time limits. Debate over length of BG check. 30 vs 15 days. I think Cornish said he wanted 3 days.
4:52   Rep arguing that to be consistent it should be 7 because it is a mechanical check.
4:53   Rep stating the noise range is still damaging. (True) Hopefully someone will point out the huge degree in reduction of damage. (Huge difference in result if you are 5 db over the limit vs 30 over, huge instant permanent loss, vs slow gradual loss)

4:57   Rep wraps his dogs in orange tape every year. Doesn't want hunters any closer. He thinks suppressors would make them more bold, and head closer to areas they shouldn't be.

Another Rep Turbofan vs jet at airports. We should do everything we can to reduce noise. Every bit helps. good for shooting ranges.
Rep said His ears ring when bird hunting. (Later edit: Might be a different rep than the above, I would have to re-watch and check)
5:00   Says we should encourage appropriate tool use.

5:04   Lady rep said proper scientific tests are impossible. Would require some people to operate guns sans any protection and study their hearing loss as a control group vs those using suppressors.

5:07   Another lady rep went and shot a suppressed weapon, and talked about ShotSpotter. She seemed neutral on guns last year, she was the swing vote, but this year she invited other reps to join her shooting different weapons to do the research. Our side was not a part of that in any way, she did it on her own with (Saint Paul?) police and their weapons.

5:10   Suppressors passed with one nay vote.  grin

----  New bill up, buying long guns in non contiguous states  ----

5:12   Andrew is up again. History of GCA 68. Bill concerns buying rifles and shotguns in non contiguous states.

5:17   Explaining details of the bill.

5:19 passed, no opposed.

519.   Speech by rep concerning 2nd amendment.


Odds are not that great of getting anything through the Senate though. We might get a few of the less important and controversial bills through. Our side, including our key members are in this for the long haul. If we don't win this year, we will win next year, or the year after. The carry bill took over ten years of work, if suppressors and constitutional carry take that long, so be it.
TL;DR  We won! All four bills headed to the House Floor. Next meeting for the House is this Tuesday. Updates and proofreading when I get home. More when I wake up tomorrow.

Minnesota Gun Owners Political Action Committee: "The bill is sponsored by Reps from both parties, so the Governor has an out for signing a "bipartisan" bill.
The big hurdle will be Rep. Latz, who chairs Senate Judiciary. He could refuse to call the bill, unless leadership intervenes."


I was starting to slip on my huge picture collection quota.

www.startribune.com article about suppressors. It is amazing how much things have changed in the last few years. The RedStar, Star&Sickle err StarTribune has *really* changed in its reporting of gun articles. That said,it does take us spoon feeding facts, details, and constantly correcting their lies, misconceptions, and mistakes, but the change is still amazing.
Quote from: From the Strib article:
ST. PAUL, Minn. — House lawmakers moved Thursday to legalize silencers and loosen the rules for bringing firearms onto the state Capitol grounds, reigniting debate over guns in Minnesota even as the leader of the Senate said he'd "like to stay out of the gun conversation" this year.
In 2013 they wanted to ban everything, in 2014 they wanted a lot, now they don't want to play at all. Huge progress!
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« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2015, 09:52:56 AM »

Hearing Tuesday evening. Another Thursday morning

Civil Law and Data Practices Committee
Tuesday, March 17, 2015
6:00 p.m.
Room 500 North
State Office Building

Map: https://goo.gl/maps/01YTD

PARK FOR FREE after 4 p.m. in lot AA (at Aurora & Rice)
______________

The bill is expected to go on to the Public Safety committee on Thursday morning.
______________
Public Safety and Crime Prevention Policy and Finance
Thursday, March 19, 2015
10:15 a.m.
Room 10
State Office Building

Map: https://goo.gl/maps/01YTD

PARK for $1.75/hr in lot AA (at Aurora & Rice) or at meters

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« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2015, 03:07:41 PM »

Tuesday's hearing.

5:58  Anti gun rep Lesch is making a few funny jokes. He always seemed like a nice guy in person. Very funny.

6:01  Starting, old business.

6:10  Indian tribe bill.

6:12  Our emergency powers bill is up.
   Katrina history.

6:16  GOCRA, and NRA support bill.
    Reason bill is in this specific hearing is because we can sue if guns are confiscated.

6:18   Rep Lesch is asking why police would respect this bill if they don't respect the 2nd amendment. Asked about other seized items including records. Chair jokenly asked "what's a record?", lots of laughter.

6:20   GOCRA president emeritus, professor Olsen answering questions.

6:21   All in favor of sending to public safety? All ayes.

6:22   Saint Patrick party, free green shakes for reps. One rep said "nothing legislators like more than free stuff", lots of laughter.

The bill is moving to the public safety committee. It is guaranteed to pass.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2015, 08:17:22 PM by DustinD » Report to moderator   Logged

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« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2015, 06:15:35 AM »

9:10.   At the capitol. Today we pass the emergency powers bill to the floor. This bans gun confiscation during emergencies. Only 3 of us here that I can see.

9:30.   4 of us here, no anti gun types, none yesterday either.

10:10.   Maybe 20 of us now, I have only seen 1 person from the opposition, their leader Heather Martens. It will be fun to see what she has to say.

10:15.   Looks like we are in for a slide show featuring hurricane Katrina and roof Koreans.
   2 of the opposition are here.

10:17.   Starting, roll call.  Bill concerning proof of car insurance using smart phone app.

10:40.  Reciprocity with north Dakota.

10:45.   Big debate over BG checks, NICs checks,

League of women voters.  Susan Sheridan Tucker.  Against all guns (paraphrasing), some fun commentary out of her.

Subjugate state sovringty, martens up

18 vs 21 age for carry permit in nd vs mn

11:18.    18 vs 21, Cornish for 18 and campus carry.  Cornish supports constitutional carry.

11:25.   NICs and background check

11:33.    Law enforcement training.  Martens wants to speak to a few reps, goes for a little stroll on the forbidden side of the table.

11:36.     Police training,  north Dakota Class one vs class two carry permit.

DPS website, maintaing database.

11:53.  DPS (department of public safety) testifying.

Martens isn't happy about the recess.

12:00.  In recess

Lots of fun commentary, wish I could blog better. Using a smart phone and was in the front row. Needed to look good for the camera, not buried in the phone.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2015, 09:44:05 AM by DustinD » Report to moderator   Logged

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Stay bloodthirsty, my friends."

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« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2015, 03:02:15 PM »

6:00    Lots of fun at the House floor. Some financial bill is creating tons of drama. Rod Hamilton yelled at the speaker that he is a dictator. Lots of out of order yelling and such, it was awesome.

We should start soon.

About 10 of us to 2 of them. The crazy guy from Plymouth, and Heather Martens.

6:25   Meeting in order. Reciprocity with ND. DPS 'Somedood' is up, seems like a nice guy, pro gun, wants reciprocity. He was friendly and chatted with us before he testified. Never mind he wasn't DPS. Anyone know who he works for?

6:29   Now the DPS guy is up. The department is neutral on the bill.

6:33   Discussing 18 vs 21, and ND lowers training requirement.

6:37   The word "similar" is a big issue.

6:42   What if Someone is a chronic drunk or mentally I'll?

6:47   Heather martens is up, defining 'substantially similar'. She used the dictionary, not the legal versions. Her testimony ignored that several other states have a greater degree of difference than North Dakota.

6:48   Crazy guy (Bill Krause) up. Wants to ask ND if they will up their standard and not weaken ours. (They keep claiming that it violates, or that we are giving up, our sovereignty by allowing ND residents to carry in MN under MN law. Our counterpoint is that Professor Olsen, who started GOCRA over 25 years ago was able to drive in MN at age 14 with his TX license even though MN only gave licenses to 16 year olds.)

6:49   Motion passed with several nays. It seemed like most or all of the nays came from DFLers.

6:50   Emergency powers bill.

7:00   Slide show. Lots of Katrina, LA riots, stolen guns, roof Koreans.

7:07   Q&A.  Andrew Rothman up, definition of quasi government.
Neighborhood watch, scout leader? Who is quasi government? (It later turns out that when private security or anyone else who was deputized by the .gov or working under their direction is quasi government)

7:12   Issues of indemnity for police. Same language as other states. Question of chain of evidence.

7:17   Issue of curfew. Can still steal guns from curfew violators. (Dustin's note: I believe requires and covers the issue of the guns being given back, I will update)

7:20   Question about Leo under fire during Katrina. Our rep said he is sure first responders were under fire.

My phone ate the post before this one, and sometime after 7:20 I was asked to play photographer.

Later on Heather and the Bill Krause, the crazy guy, spoke.

You can also see him at 29:20, and later at 1:47:00 in this video.

When I uploaded the video it gave me the following suggested tags: +Firearm (Sports Equipment)+Family+Bill+Crazy+Capture+Insane   Those are just based on the title I gave it, but it was still funny to me.
Sadly when I tried to zoom I hit the volume button on my phone causing it to go to vibrate twice, I also missed the first several seconds of his testimony. I will update it with House Committee audio once that is available.
This might end up being the video link, I am still editing it.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?edit=vd&v=KyIiX-NNWfg

I am going to bring my tape recorder to the capitol from now on. Especially for the smaller committee meetings that don't have much or any video.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2015, 11:26:58 AM by DustinD » Report to moderator   Logged

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« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2015, 04:33:19 PM »

Quote
10:15.   Looks like we are in for a slide show featuring hurricane Katrina and roof Koreans.
   2 of the opposition are here.

....
10:40.  Reciprocity with north Dakota.

Funny how my mind works.   I read the line with "roof Koreans".  Then on down my mind sticks it in as "reciprocity with North Korea".  Oh, wait, that can't be right.
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« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2015, 08:28:23 AM »

From GOCRA's Facebook page.

GUN VOTE THURSDAY
On Thursday, the full House will vote on four gun rights bills.
Please come to the Capitol at 3:00 Thursday to show your support for these bills! Wear your GOCRA shirt (or any maroon shirt), to show our strength.
Need a shirt? Pre-order one here: www.gocra.mn/shirt
Here are the bills:
Rep. Mark Anderson's suppressor bill, HF1434
Rep. Eric Lucero's interstate purchase bill, HF830
Rep. Jim Newberger's emergency Powers bill, HF722
Rep. Jim Nash's capitol notification bill, HF372
These bills will be presented and voted individually, to show how much support they have in the House, which should help the omnibus bill move forward (see our last update).
____________________________
Minnesota House - Gun Votes
When: Thursday, April 16, 2015, 3:00 p.m.
Where: Minnesota State Capitol
Map: www.gocra.mn/capmap
Park: $1.75/hr in lot AA (at Aurora & Rice) or at meters
Wear: A maroon shirt (especially a GOCRA shirt!) -- or dress clothes (suits or dresses)
Carry: Discreetly, after notifying the commissioner: www.gocra.mn/capcarry
Tip: The meters and parking are only enforced until 4! Don't overfeed the meters!

-------------

Everyone wants to know: what's going on with the suppressor bill?
THAT DEPENDS ON YOU!
If the House sees a big turnout of support for the suppressor legalization bill, HF1434, on Thursday at 3:00, they may be convinced to put the suppressor bill into the public safety omnibus bill.
Adding the suppressor bill to the omnibus would give it the BEST CHANCE of getting through the Senate.
So put on a maroon shirt and join us at the Capitol on Thursday at 3:00, and let the legislature know loud and clear that Minnesotans like their guns...not quite as loud.
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« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2015, 12:32:04 PM »

We won! Every bill passed!

This is the live blog post for today's House vote on numerous gun bills. I advertised this thread on Facebook, and a few other forums, so we may have a few visitors.  Update: We won on every issue!

To everyone just now seeing this thread also note my other thread on suppressor research.

3:26   I am at the second floor balcony. Reps are starting to fill in below.

3:30   Call to order, prayer, pledge of allegiance.

3:35   Nice seeing a few "self defense is a human right" buttons on reps. We have a very nice turnout, likely around a 50 people, not sure.

3:40   I am not allowed to lean over the railing.  angel

3:45   HF 830  Purchasing contiguous states, passed.

3:48   HF 372  Permit to carry Capitol notification is up.

3:54   Cornish testified to a point of order, said lock boxes at the Capitol would be expensive.

3:59   Speaker won a voice vote.

4:00   Capitol notification vote, passed.

4:01   HF 722  Gun confiscation during emergencies. Posing pill amendment to the bill failed. Another amendment. Rep Jim Newberger, the bill's sponsor wants the amendment to fail. So called officer safety, two of our guys, both police are against the amendment, the person for it was also a police officer, he doesn't believe in gun control but he is on Bloomberg's payroll. Failed.

4:12   HF 722 main vote, passed 88 to 42.

4:15   HF 1434 Suppressors, wahoo! It was brought up!

4:18   Suppressor amendment up. Rep Raymond Dehn (DFL lawyer) speaking, he voted to move the bill out of committee earlier this year. Saying anti gun stuff Sad  Sounds like it will be a rural vs city restriction. Some sort of carve out. Now he is talking about background checks. It now sounds like a registration amendment. Doesn't affect long guns... Only affects semi auto rifles and hand guns.  rolleyes Huh? Face Palm!

4:24   Rep Peppin? from Hennepin "Can the Sgt at Arms carry guns as they go out after us" *laughter* response: (from the Speaker) "The speaker isn't sure".

4:26   Cornish rebutting the amendment, nice speech given. First Cornish addresses the background check stat concerning the 80% that support background checks. He makes the point that people don't know the details of the background checks before responding.

(Dustin's comment: Both GOCRA and the NRA support background checks. It really depends on what type and for whom. The issue that is being debated in society at large is should there be a check between family members for even short term borrowing) Cornish actually makes the same point, and did a great job.  This speech is at 1:09:00 in the video linked at the end of this post.

4:29   Voting on Rep Dehn's registration and UBC (Universal Background Check) amendment. 1:13 - 1:26 in the video.

Minnesota is a gun state, it is passed time that you can beat up on gun owners. Are you really going to beat up gun owners after you lost the majority. Not a direct quote, wish I had recorded that. Updated text to follow.

4:35   Roll call still going. Sgt at Arms instructed to bring in absent members. One unexcused member left. Funny bit of drama shaming Republican Rep Paul Torkelson to get in here and vote. It was started by the dems, and the speaker joined in on it.

4:39   Cornish discussing the background check amendment.

4:43   Amendment failed. 45 to 84

4:56   Finally moving on. Anti gun speech. 1:28:00 in the video. Rep Joe Mullery "When somebody yells duck, they run for their guns to go hunting."  rolleyes

4:58   Said shotspotter doesn't work with suppressors per their contract.

4:59   Rep Cornish (R, NRA T-shirt worn under his jacket) (1:33:00 in the video) up again. Said the sergeant with the Minneapolis PD said shotspotter doesn't work under many conditions now anyway. Said shotspotter can detect suppressed gun shots if they are entered into the database, and that suppressors aren't used in crimes.

5:02   Rep Diane Loeffler (DFL, Hennepin, 1:34:00 in the video) Says gunshots signal to kids to seek cover. Talks about rural vs urban areas. Says she is voting no.

5:04   Suppressor main vote. (1:35:00 in the video) The score board is looking awesome... and... We won!  89 to 40

Done for today, more info and corrections to follow.

We now have a better than 50% chance of getting these bills signed into law.

Live and archived video of the House and Senate   http://www.house.leg.state.mn.us/htv/liveweb.htm  Suppressors start at the 46 minute mark.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2015, 07:56:53 PM by DustinD » Report to moderator   Logged

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« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2015, 04:51:19 PM »

Right now we need to contact our reps in the House and convince them to add the suppressor bill to the omnibus bill, and contact our Senators and tell them to support gun owners.

Quote from GOCRA's FB page: "The House GOP leadership hadn't yet decided to add it (the suppressor bill) to the omnibus. They clearly need to do so." I heard, but I am not sure from whom, that the reason it isn't is because it failed a 24 hour deadline to make it in before, but the bill can be added later.

The omnibus strategy is to force the gun bills through with the rest of the "almost must" pass bills. I seriously doubt the governor would veto an omnibus bill. We need to write our House reps and let them know to add the suppressor bill to the omnibus bill.

My personal guess is the House and Senate leaderships are still debating what bills to pass this year. I hope it isn't a matter of them not being sure if they want to push and spend the political capitol on suppressors, and the delay is just a coincidence or nothing to worry about, but I am not sure. We need to write/call/visit them and convince them to pass them all.






HF 372   Capitol carry notification passed 92-38
HF 722   Emergency Powers bill passed 88-42
HF 830   Clarifies interstate long gun sales 110-19
HF 1434  Suppressors passed 89-40

All of the Republicans that voted, voted pro gun. A few had to be coaxed by the democrats by means of the Sgt at Arms into voting though.

House Ways and Means Committee suppressor audio 28:15 minutes / seconds into the audio. Adopted into the omnibus bill with one nay.
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« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2015, 05:03:39 PM »

So small world story: Rep Davnie on the above list is my Wife's uncle, and was at my house two weeks ago.

I pitched these bills, and think I made some headway but he was not swayed on suppressors at all. In the end he's pretty partisan. (Although he'd be really offended to hear that.)
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« Reply #24 on: April 23, 2015, 08:09:14 PM »

Update from GOCRA's Facebook page

Quote
Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance
2 hrs Ě
The Minnesota Senate has voted in favor of all GOCRA bills!
The pro-2A measures were added to a huge "omnibus" bill, containing many public safety, judiciary and corrections issues.
Because the House and Senate will produce omnibus bills that will differ significantly, (not our provisions, but others), the next significant step will be a "conference committee" -- five senators and five representatives, who will meet and try to hammer out a single compromise bill for both the House and the Senate to vote upon.
If all goes well, since the House and Senate are almost exactly in sync on our issue, the conference committee will leave them alone.
All doesn't always go well, of course, so we'll ask you to make some calls and send some emails tomorrow.
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